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Jan 28, 2014 11:28 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

Cuomo Seeks Hunting Regulation Changes; Deer Hunting Areas May Open Up

Jan 28, 2014 2:22 PM

While the local deer debate rages on, Governor Andrew Cuomo has used his executive budget powers to potentially loosen hunting restrictions statewide—a move his office is touting as a direct countermeasure to the spiking deer population.

As an amendment to the state’s Environmental Conservation Law, Gov. Cuomo’s budget seeks to officially allow the use of crossbows for the hunting of deer and bear. In addition, the budget would allow the use of either a long bow or a crossbow at a distance of 150 feet or more from any building—a far cry from the current 500-foot setback.

The setback change, which Assemblyman Fred W. Thiele Jr. said he sees as an opportunity to greatly increase huntable areas on the East End, was recommended by the State Department of Environmental Conservation in its Deer Management Plan. It would also align New York policy with the laws of adjacent states.

Assemblyman Thiele, in support of the measure, said that a similar reduction was proposed by his office last year at the behest of local government officials.

“Deer management has been a major issue on eastern Long Island, where deer populations have skyrocketed, creating ecological, health and safety issues,” Mr. Thiele said. “These [past] measures have not been adopted by the State Legislature. As a result, farmers and local governments have been forced to look at more drastic management measures. The setback reduction, if enacted as part of the state budget, will provide a major tool that will permit the hunting community to play a greater role in reducing the deer herd.”

Mr. Thiele still threw his support behind other measures to cull the herd, but called the measure positive: “There are other management tools that still need to be implemented, both lethal and non-lethal, but the enactment of this proposal would be a good first step in reducing the number of deer on eastern Long Island.”

In addition to the loosened bow hunting restrictions, the governor’s proposed budget has added other interesting language to Section I of the Environmental Conservation law.

Presumably as a means of weapon control, Gov. Cuomo added a provision to allow the state to take away a firearm or bow hunting license from any individual who allows an unlicensed child to use his or her weapon.

In addition, in an attempt to rectify current practice with the written code, for the first time the executive is seeking to add “or she,” to sections of the law that outline who is eligible for hunting permits.

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Great idea to expand hunting to help reduce the deer population, but what is the lethality of a crossbow at 50 yards? [150 feet per the article -- half a football field]

Has this been researched properly?
By PBR (4956), Southampton on Jan 28, 14 12:20 PM
The Hunter needs to be 150 feet away from a building, he can be as close to the deer as he can get.
By Photoman (10), East hampton on Jan 28, 14 2:28 PM
And if a person were standing next to the building in the line of fire, how lethal could an arrow from a crossbow be (compared to the 500' limit now) if it misses the deer and hits the person instead?
By PBR (4956), Southampton on Jan 28, 14 4:55 PM
1 member liked this comment
Not such a great idea at all - everyone should be aware that hunting merely spurs reproduction! After so many years of hunting, hasn't it occurred to anyone why deer populations haven't decreased (except in the immediate aftermath of a hunting season)? According to a peer-reviewed scientific study by Richter & Labisky (a study that state wildlife agencies are quite aware of, and manage deer accordingly for MSY) - this study showed that hunted herds produce twins/triplets at the rate of 38%, while ...more
By NatalieJarnstedt (6), Chicago, Illinois on Jan 28, 14 12:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
Why don't you worry about your craptastic city of Chicago and let us worry about New York.
By Preliator Lives (437), Obamavillie on Jan 28, 14 2:21 PM
2 members liked this comment
No need to resort to nastiness and snide remarks, which is so typical of those who don't understand, nor are willing to learn the facts on wildlife reproduction and mismanagement by wildlife agencies. I love Chicago, but, sadly, do not live there. I have every right to be concerned with NY state's deer mismanagement because the same bovine excrement is practiced in every state that "manages" game for hunters' pleasures!
By NatalieJarnstedt (6), Chicago, Illinois on Jan 28, 14 3:19 PM

The data that you are referencing to support your position, refers to "CULLING" not HUNTING…FYI...Just like you choose to interpret "hunting" as being more of a business catering to clients, you also fail to acknowledge that deer hunting is an important part of many American families outdoor heritage.

According to the NYSDEC White-tailed Management Plan 2012-2016;

"Deer hunting continues to be an important activity for many New York families, providing ...more
By MichaelHunter (76), East Quogue, New York on Jan 29, 14 2:00 AM
Hunters For Deer is thankful that Governor Andrew Cuomo has taken the steps to initiate an archery setback plan that surrounding states have utilized in their hunting regulations for over a decade, providing more access to hunting areas that have become safe havens for deer. Although, we are appreciative of the setbacks being cut from 500' to 150', we fear that this measure is dwarfed by deer management policies that fail to recognize the difference between Long Island deer management and upstate ...more
By MichaelHunter (76), East Quogue, New York on Jan 28, 14 2:51 PM
Good point micheal hunter! Including your comments aboutcraptastic Chicago. Of course reproductive rates decline in the absence of a herd being hunted. The deer herd overgraze their range the habitat declines and deer weights drop dramatically and they stop reproducing. That's also called STARVING to DEATH. Are useless NY politicians will probably punt the issue until the public gets tired and forgets about the problem. Their way of solving the problem. How about adding legal baiting? This would ...more
By Charlie42 (5), Southampton on Jan 28, 14 8:11 PM
Leave deer alone, and their population will stabilize. Many studies
have proven this.

Since hunting causes the reproduction rates of a deer population to
double or triple, hunting is not a solution to a problem, but a
commitment to a permanent problem.

When towns kill deer, they convey a message to our children that
killing is the way to solve our problems.
By Wildlife Lover (3), Brookside on Jan 29, 14 8:14 AM
As you may have read, that is exactly my point!
The state wildlife agencies manage exactly for that purpose, hunting ad infinitum!
By NatalieJarnstedt (6), Chicago, Illinois on Jan 29, 14 8:29 AM
And millions of years of hunting and gathering gets culled as well?

What about families who depend on meat from hunting as part of their sustenance?

Should all hunting be banned everywhere?
By PBR (4956), Southampton on Jan 29, 14 8:51 AM
No one is trying to take venison out of the mouths of those who "might" rely on it for sustenance, and you know it - if you don't, please read details!
Aren't we living in the 21st Century? The people who hunt for sustenance are far and in-between! For example, a hermit living in the backwoods or back-country and whose hunting isn't exactly managed by a state wildlife agency wouldn't even get a license and/or deer tags - wouldn't be a threat to causing compensatory rebound, would they? The ...more
By NatalieJarnstedt (6), Chicago, Illinois on Jan 29, 14 9:30 AM
To Michael Hunter...Are you saying that because hunting is an important part of America’s outdoor heritage from the days when there was no other food source for settlers that the same should apply to living in the 21st Century? You refuse to acknowledge that hunting spurs reproduction, whether it's modeled on twinning/tripling (according to R&L) or the NAMWM nor that state wildlife agencies always manage for MSY! You're absolutely correct, they DO adjust to changes in populations - but those ...more
By Wildlife Lover (3), Brookside on Jan 29, 14 11:03 AM
1 member liked this comment
Hunting...the least honorable form of war on the weak. Andrew Cuomo has lost my vote in the next election. A person who lacks mercy is not morally fit to lead. I have lost all respect for him. Mark Twain once said " Of all the creatures ever made, Man is the most detestable. He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain "
By earthspirit (16), Southampton on Jan 29, 14 8:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
Hunting is not a sport!
A true sport involves consenting teams or individuals who agree to a set of rules or customs when engaging in a competitive activity. Do animals have a choice?
Only psychopaths grin from ear to ear while posing with their victims for those memorable trophy shots!
By NatalieJarnstedt (6), Chicago, Illinois on Jan 30, 14 12:02 PM
Natalie, are you a vegetarian?
By dnice (2346), Hampton Bays on Feb 2, 14 12:25 AM
dnice, would you please chime in on the lethality of a crossbow at 50 yards (150' vs. 500' current distance) if you know? Thanks. [see near top of comments]
By PBR (4956), Southampton on Feb 2, 14 8:18 AM
Hey PBR - use some common sense. If a Crossbow @ 500 feet can take out a deer... we know it will be more lethal to a deer @ 150 feet (higher velocity). Deer and humans are relatively comprable in size... If it hits you in the ankle you'll be ok. If it hits you in the head, you're dead.

Why do you need dnice to give you this information? Do you think it would be LESS lethal the closer you get?
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Feb 3, 14 10:28 AM
Just looking for someone with personal knowledge of crossbows to chime in [" . . . if you know . . . "], as limited online research suggests that at 500' it would be very difficult to hit, let alone kill, a deer. Perhaps a hunter could confirm this?

As to the 150' proposed distance: yes the likelihood of serious bodily harm to a human, or death, rises obviously, but again, what does an experienced bow hunter have to say?

How much easier would it be to kill a deer at 150' vs. 500' ...more
By PBR (4956), Southampton on Feb 3, 14 11:31 AM
The increase in accuracy at 150' vs 500', especially for a bowhunter, would be the most lethal component I would think.
By loading... (601), quiogue on Feb 3, 14 11:46 AM
Thanks, any way to quantify the likelihood of a crossbow shot hitting the body of a deer at 150' vs. 500' ? And its lethality?
By PBR (4956), Southampton on Feb 3, 14 11:52 AM
So the opinion of "one bowhunter" holds water for you? It's like shooting a gun - the closer you are the more "deadly" and "accurate" one will be. Oops sorry I've only shot a gun once - hope that qualifies me to answer
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Feb 3, 14 7:41 PM
Hey PBR, let me try to answer for you. A crossbow probably has an effective kill range of just a little more than a compound bow, probably out toaybe 50 yards. After that accuracy is severely compromised. That said, I wouldn't want to be shot at while standing 200 feet away. There is always that chance that the bolt(crossbow arrow) finds it's mark, and with draw weights of 100lbs or more, and razor tipped broad heads, that sucker is still moving fast. It's got a lot of energy behind it for a ...more
By bubby (236), southampton on Feb 4, 14 7:36 AM
Excellent feedback. Thanks for the information, bubby.

So it would seem that the reduction from 500' to 150' (distance from buildings) would somewhat raise the risk of injury to humans (assuming that where a building is there could also be humans nearby).

Just one factor to be considering when expanding the opportunities for local hunters to take more deer, which IMO is a good goal.

Thanks again.
By PBR (4956), Southampton on Feb 4, 14 10:13 AM
Andrew Coumo , with all the material things your father Mario gave you. he failed to give you the most important one.......compassion and respect for all living things. We are not helpless we will purchase from humane businesses and vote for humane politicians. Therein lies our power to change this state from acceptable and indifferent animal cruelty to animal protection and conservation. It may take time but we will get there little by little person by person .We must do this before it's too late ...more
By earthspirit (16), Southampton on Jan 30, 14 1:40 PM
Time to DOUBLE the allowable of deer, especially does instead of bucks! With no other predation besides man the population has exploded, common sense dictates a larger harvest.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Feb 3, 14 10:22 AM
1 member liked this comment