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Jan 28, 2015 1:01 PMTempers flared as hunters faced fewer than a dozen residents in attendance at Saturday’s deer management informational meeting hosted by Hunters For Deer, the non-profit that is leading the cull in Remsenburg that has upset some homeowners and animal advocates.
After a brief presentation by Mike Tessitore, founder of the hunting group, accusations about the group’s ethics and the legality of the ongoing hunt in Remsenburg sprung from nearly all of those gathered inside the Westhampton Free Library in Westhampton Beach.
Bow hunting season runs from October 1 to January 31 in Suffolk County. Most residents took issue with the new setback requirement for bow hunters, which was reduced to 150 feet in residential neighborhoods, though some asked if the hunters involved with the group must first undergo background checks.
Some hamlet residents who have not enrolled in the program are upset about the hunt which, thus far, has resulted in the taking of more than 70 deer in Remsenburg.
“I like rock concerts, but I can’t host one in my yard,” said hamlet resident Bill Baker, who opposes deer hunting in residential neighborhoods.
“You have no right to tell other property owners what they can and can’t do,” Mr. Tessitore retorted. “At the end of the day, it’s up to the property owner, and we are within our rights to hunt on properties where we have permission.”
Mr. Baker and a few other residents present Saturday charged that the bow hunters have “decimated” the deer population in Remsenburg, and questioned the veracity of the progress reports being made by Hunters For Deer.
Christian Killoran, president of Hunters For Deer, reported that 72 deer were killed and that approximately 160 remain in the community. He also said his group is honest with its counts, although he later pointed out that securing an exact head count is impossible.
Mr. Tessitore and Mr. Killoran bumped heads with the residents for about 90 minutes, repeatedly explaining that their group is not trying to wipe out the local deer population. Instead, they said the hunters need to manage the population in order to reduce the number of car accidents and the spread of tick-borne illnesses.
Those present, however, were not buying into the group’s mission statement.
“You say you’re not trophy hunters, but what about this?” Kathy Hofmann of Remsenburg asked while holding up a Hunters For Deer poster, which pictured Mr. Killoran with a dead buck. “I haven’t seen a deer in two months. You decimated the herd.
“Why can’t you go to [open forest] and be a real hunter and stalk them like everyone else?” she continued.
In spite of the tense moments, members of both groups later agreed that a more accurate deer count is needed, and that it should focus on the entire East End.
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I know that that "open forest" was inserted ... but if those words were selected correctly for the context of her rhetorical question .. id really love to know .. I guess someone will say upstate
Safety is an open question, but the herd is hardly being decimated if the hunting group's numbers are anywhere near correct. If people haven't seen ...more a deer in two months. that's what success looks like in this effort.
As for trophy hunting, what difference does it make if the animal is a trophy specimen or not, as long as it's killed? The idea is to reduce traffic hazards, crop damage and disease, and that seems to be happening.
It's counterintuitive for hunters to stalk the "open forest" when the problem is not there, but in built-up places like Remsenburg and most of Southampton Town.
No one should be misled by these red herrings the Bambi crowd is using -- they want to preserve every deer in Remsenburg, period. One activist openly proclaimed that the deer are "like pets" and expressed disdain for people's concerns about "the stupid shrubs."
I believe the great majority thinks otherwise, regarding the deer as a nuisance, and getting very tired of driving as if they were in a war zone, obsessing about ticks, and writing big checks every year to replace their plantings (or worse yet, suffering damage to their farming livelihoods).
Enough! Here's to the responsible sportsmen -- may they have good hunting, and may we all get some relief from this minor (for now) plague.
That's OK, it's not important, but you've made some grossly false accusations. Contrary to what you irresponsibly say, I'm not a hunter, I don't belong to Hunters for Deer or any other such organization, and I feel just fine without ...more killing anything.
My interest in this matter is what I wrote above and no more -- let's reduce the traffic accidents, the spread of disease and the crop damage by reducing the deer population with hunting and any other cost-effective methods, and let's not allow the sentimentalists to mislead us with phony objections like "decimation" of the herd.
About this "too cowardly to use your real name" charge -- when I started commenting on 27east five years ago, hardly anyone used their real name, it was all screen names. That was the culture of the site, and I conformed, adopting a screen name without giving it much thought. It's still going on; by my count, there are 12 different posters in this thread so far, and 7 of us are using screen names.
Somehow, a lot of people got to know who Turkey Bridge is, and that's fine with me, but I'm not telling you online -- you can find out for yourself the way everyone else has.
Or don't bother to, because it doesn't really matter, but don't go making baseless, malicious accusations of cowardice. It's the wrong thing to do, and it doesn't help your cause.
Ignorance about how lyme disease is spread (it really comes more from the white footed mouse, squirrels and domestic pets) is causing people to believe the lies spread to justify killing all the deer.
This is about money, this group is making a killing at the expense of our wildlife and our community under the guise of management ...more and being a not for profit. Just because one person wants to plant a garden, doesn't mean they can just deny their neighbor who enjoys watching wildlife. Balance is the key.
As a proud member of the "Bambi Crowd" whose "base sentimentality" inspires me to condemn the actions of psychopathic "sportsmen" who ignore the torment that they inflict on innocents in gratification of their predatory drives, I take exception to your post.
Yes, I want to preserve the life of every innocent be he human or deer. We are different species but we share the same emotions and suffer the same agony if some stone-hearted egomaniac decides to kill us ...more for "fun".
It seems surreal that this question is even debated in an intellectually enlightened community. That it IS is proof of how we have allowed pernicious psychopathic arguments of "expediency" to overwhelm the revulsion at depraved behavior that people of normal emotional formation experience.
It has happened in recent history with regard to OTHER species as well. Then it was called "Eugenics".
You can point to other disease carriers such as mice, but that doesn't mean we can say, "Oh, it's the mice, forget ...more the deer." We need to target all carriers.
Is it "about money" as you say? Are hunters being paid to hunt? And even if they are, you pay an exterminator to get rid of your termites. How is this any different?
You say balance is the key between the interests of gardeners and wildlife enthusiasts. Remember, though, it's a two-way street, and the gardener's plants don't cause traffic accidents, spread disease or eat the crops. The gardener's interest shouldn't trump the deer lover's interest, and vice versa. The balance is off if you have a herd breeding without limit and munching away.
Highhatsize, with the greatest respect and esteem, I guess we disagree. As noted, I'm not a hunter, but long before there was Remsenburg, there was hunting. Long before eugenics, there was hunting. Long before just about anything, there was hunting. We're not going to change that, even if the activity has deteriorated from obtaining food to idle amusement.
My view is fundamentally different from yours. Theologically, morally and scientifically, I believe humans to be a higher life form than other animals, uniquely endowed with a spiritual component I call a soul. Bitter irony here, as humans daily give us compelling reasons to think otherwise, but I still believe it.
I also adhere to the biblical notion that other species were put on earth for man's use. Man needs to be a far, far better steward than he has been, but good or bad, he is the steward.
This said, you will understand that I can't begin to see anything like the parity you suggest between humans and other species, attractive as that parity is on other levels.
Just ...more so you know I'm not a scriptural literalist. Not even close.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
To clarify MY position, I do not believe in the parity of man and animals, although I suspect that this is because I "am" man rather than one of them. If it comes down to a Salomonic choice, I choose man.
However, it virtually never DOES come down to such a choice. In the instant case, we can control the deer herd though non-lethal mean. The objections to this strategy (putting to the side the objections of the troglodytes ...more who want to have fun killin' 'em) is that it is expensive.
Note that the expense isn't such as to drive us all to forage for wild turnips to sustain ourselves, but a decidedly MINOR governmental expenditure in the total budget.
It is a question of the VALUE that we put on the emotional lives of animals. It may be that humanity has throughout its prior evolution ignored this consideration (perhaps because simply staying alive took all its concentration) but we are now evolved to a position wherein we can all get fat and worry about dying of clogged arteries without killing other animals. I see it as a continuum of human evolution albeit mental rather than physical.
While the bible gives dominion to man over animals, it doesn't say that we should kill them. That might have been requisite in antiquity but it isn't now. The biblical command can be interpreted to impose on humanity the obligation of animal husbandry.
Finally, I challenge anyone to prove that humanity is "scientifically" a "higher" form of life or has "developed ... far beyond other species". Personally, I suspect that Cetaceans may occupy that position.
Must ...more close, have to go gather turnips. A pleasure as always.
Well, a sperm whale's brain is actually six times larger than a human's. Perhaps the extraordinary intelligence indicated by this fact has cause the sperm whale to reject manipulation of his environment (which is the totality of your cataloged list of the achievements of homo sapiens) as insignificant when compared to the profound philosophical meditations in which it spends its life.
First regarding this article above: "Christian Killoran, president of Hunters For Deer, reported that 72 deer were killed and that approximately 160 remain in the community. He also said his group is honest with its counts, although he later pointed out that securing an exact head count is impossible"-Is Mr Killoran claiming that a head count on deer killed in Remsenburg is not possible? I hope not because each and every deer killed while hunting in NY STATE MUST BE REPORTED TO THE NYSDEC-if the Club is run as organized and efficiently as they claim how could a total head count of deer killed not be available?Memebers of the club do not need to report the kill for the stats of the club?How are you proving the effictiveness of your program?Verbally?When asked the club states that they will release their stats "if and when it is deemed necessary" why? Because the number of deer killed is not reality.
Secondly:"Bow hunting season runs from October 1 to January 31 in Suffolk County. Most residents took issue with the new setback requirement for bow hunters, which was reduced to 150 feet in residential neighborhoods, though some asked if the hunters involved with the group must first undergo background checks."-Background checks?Apparently not.One club memeber was removed due to his use of a crossbow (illegal on LI) and shooting more than his limit of 2 bucks-( he shot 3) also illegal on LI. Interesting also that the DEC visited the area on more than one occasion while the club was hunting in the area.There disdain for the NYSDEC should not sit well with any property owner.This is the typical mindset of a poacher.........after all if you are not playing by the rules why would you want the DEC sniffing around.Club memebers are picked by lottery draw to hunt properties.........so every time someone shows up to hunt a property it's someone different.........I would not feel very comfortable with this especially in a suburban setting.
Thirdly:“You say you’re not trophy hunters, but what about this?” Kathy Hofmann of Remsenburg asked while holding up a Hunters For Deer poster, which pictured Mr. Killoran with a dead buck. “I haven’t seen a deer in two months. You decimated the herd." -The club memebers have taken several Trophy Bucks while hunting their assorted properties in Remsenburg,Lloyd Harbor and wherever else they may have contaminated.There is photo evidence of this all over the internet and their Facebook pages.They have placed antler restrictions (in this case how many points a Buck's Rack must have in order to be removed) on certain properties-This is the very definition of Trophy Hunting.Apparently the upper eschelon of the club scout the new properties,move in and kill a few racked trophies,then the lower level "rank and file" club memebers are allowed to enter the lottery and hunt.A few antlerless deer are killed and the club then boasts about all the antlerless deer they are removing.This is not conducive to proper population management.
BELOW IS THE ORIGINAL RESPONSE TO HIS COMMENT-
It's easy to respond with your rebuttal..........because it was drafted in Fantasyland.The most laughable part of the sham is the fact that a hunting club initially aligned themselves with a group of animal rights advocates because the hunting club was uneducated and ill informed from the get go about what their mission truly is.Jumping on the bandwagon to stop the issuance of new nuisance permits?.......hurting the Farmers,essentially taking money from their pockets,because memebers were turned down when asking permission to hunt some farms?The majority of nuisance permits are geared toward the removal of antlerless deer form the population-unlike your hinting club who are geared to removing antlered deer for trophy hunting purposes......this of course goes against every stitch of proper Deer herd Management.I would think being the "Deer management solution for property owners" your club would know this and support it..It seems that you change the tune of the club to whatever suits the occasion-Mission Statement:BS whoever will listen to our spiel.
Uninformed individuals(non-hunting public) are an easy sell.........and I can also concoct A BS reply to make an organization sound like the end all to the Deer population problem.It's like taking candy from a baby to promise the world to them and then BS your results to look like the superstars.I can tell Mrs. Smith as well that I removed 12 deer from her property -after all who is really paying that amount of attention to the clubs actions when they are feeding the verbal lies to make it sound and appear differently.
Why are Deer being donated to the Quogue Wildlife refuge? Would it not be better to donate deer or processed venison to the less fortunate in the human population?-even if it is only a few that were donated to the refuge.Where are the pictures of the stacks of antlerless deer that are taken on these properties?That would impress many more individuals-as well as the informed public. All that seems to be available are the pictures of the antlered deer.......a selling point to gain new memebers.........after all.......more members,more money.......more money the more you can get the word out about the hunting club.....mailings,street soliciting,community presentations,etc.......the reason the Deer population is so out of whack is because not many Bowhunters target antlerless deer.......they are looking for antlers.........this is fact.......not fantasy.The more members you can gather for the club with oohhs and aahhs over the antlers....the better for the club..........but it does nothing for the Deer population.
Why is it that the club denounces all local governemnt and the NYS DEC at every chance they get.......anti-government? Makes one wonder if the Game laws and regulations pertain to the club?.......most likely no.......crossbows.......shooting more game than allowed,etc.etc.One would think that you would welcome the DEC with open arms.
I'm also curious as to the legalities of charging a memebership fee to the club members.By giving a "donation"does this negate all liabilities to the club and more importantly the property owner?Once a fee is charged-to participate in recreational activities- the property owner becomes liable for any accidents,deaths,etc.I'm not sure of the exact breakdown but I understand that $100.00 will get you in the "certified" group.......What does the corporate $1000.00 membership get me........prime spots to shoot the Big Bucks?Sounds like a hunting club to me.
Real world scenarios with foam targets?..........once again the ability to hit a foam target MEANS NOTHING in a REAL WORLD hunting situation.If your club members need to be tested in proficiency by shooting foam targets to prove their lethal capabilities.......why the hell would anyone want them shooting on or near their property?-especially in a suburban setting.Sounds like a bunch of inexperienced,amateur Hunters blinded by the chance to shoot a buck on private property.........again this is what caused the current population issue.Hunters not wanting to shoot antlerless deer.
I have no interest in speaking with you via telephone.I know my stance and what is necessary to help the deer herd.I don't need to hear your BS sales pitch.I heard it once at a town meeting......I'm sure it has not improved.
My critique of your post has been on style. I have not written anything which would indicate my position on the issue.
I live in Remsenburg-Speonk. ...more I still have the flyer Cay Chandler handed to me while I was out-and-about on my refrigerator. Some of the questions she asks are legitimate. Some statements are laughable such as not seeing a deer in weeks. But there is one question missing from her list that I would like to know about. That is that arrows are not an instant kill.( I assume) Once arrowed, how long does it take to immobilize the deer? And if the wounded deer deer winds up in my back yard can the hunter follow? In such a situation can I just give the arrow back and thanjk the hunter for having the deer over for a freezer party?
A well placed arrow will cause a deer to expire in as quickly as 10-15 seconds.Being that this is not a perfect world sometimes things happen and the arrow does not find its mark as inteneded.In this case the deer will either not be mortally wounded and survive to see another day or will take longer to expire.
If a deer did in fact wind up in your backyard the ...more hunter would need your permission to follow and complete the task at hand.NYS law does not force you or anyone else to allow the hunter to retrieve the deer from private property without permission.
Am I pro life or pro choice? Perhaps the club should be asking themselves this question........protesting the cull with Animal Rights Activists? ...more .......Joining these same groups to try and stop the issuance of nuisance permits?............seems very Anti Hunting to me.......Pro life or Pro Choice?......Let me guess.....because unborn Fawns are being killed during the spaying procedure........and you are a Hunter? I will say again.....there is no age or size limit on the removal of Antlerless Deer from the Herd.You are wasting your energy typing the point about the unborn fawns.......the Informed Public knows the facts.Such as the claim that the Club was solely responsible for reducing the setback from 500' to 150'? You don't say.......this has been in the works for years as part of the management plan on LI......long before the club came into existence.
As far as the fawn issue........ more BS from club memebers trying to appeal to the compassion of the public.......the fawns will be part of the population if born.....what better way to remove them then before they are born......less expense than trying to capture them at a later date.
And Yes I have the luxury of plenty of free time........and will invest all of it if need be to stop the ridiculous claims and untruths of the hunting club. Be careful if Mike stops short.
when it is allowed on adjacent properties? Would everyone at least be notified and informed which homeowners participated by allowing their land to be hunted?
2014 Marks the Second Best Year for Safe Hunting in New York
New York's Sportsman Education Program is a Key Factor
"The 2014 New York hunting season closed with the second lowest number of hunting related-shooting incidents on record, State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) Commissioner Joe Martens announced today.
"Hunting is a tradition in New York State that continues to be safely ...more enjoyed by many," said Commissioner Martens. "Governor Cuomo's NY Open for Fishing and Hunting Initiative recognizes all the benefits the sporting community brings to New York's economy and commends hunters for continuing their safe hunting practices. I thank our hunters for following the safety guidelines and for making this past year a successful hunting season."
New York's hunting incident rate (incidents per 100,000 hunters) has fallen by more than 75 percent since the 1960s. The past five-year average is down to 4.3 incidents per 100,000 hunters, compared to 19 per 100,000 in the 1960s."
How about your Club partaking in the attempt to stop the issuance of new nuisance permits? The USDA is not part of them.
What reasoning was there behind trying to hurt the farmers?Who are you to tell them they can't remove deer on their property.You are smug enough to tell the gentleman in the article above that "he has no right to tell property owners what they can and can't do"-But you can?
You say you and the club were not for the sterilization?Did you and another member of the ...more club not offer to shoot the darts to administer the drug?Or was this another attempt at grasping at straws to appeal to the non and anti hunting public?
Why can you not show proof of the effectiveness of your hunting club's program.Wouldn't photo documentation bolster the reputation and give the program an excellent selling tool? 70 some odd deer removed from a residential area?The residents should be ecstatic........why the secrecy behind showing the kills?The majority of the pictures are all good sized antlered deer.Do you feel this is the proper way to manage a deer population?Does the club not keep stats for the members?Who,what,when and where?What if a homeowner wants to know?Do you make something up?
How about the liability factor?How is the hunting club getting around that?Paying participants create a liability for a property owner.What happens when one of the "certified" hunters shoots one of the property owners cats like they alluded to on the clubs facebook page.The Black cat in Remsenburg-you know,the picture that a memebr posted and everyone egged him on to shoot it.Is that part of the DEC safety stats?
How many misinformed,ridiculous and bogus statements can the club make before everyone realizes the truth?
Your hunting club berates and denounces the NYSDEC at every opportunity but yet you seem to love to rely on them for cut and paste purposes to somehow legitimize your club?
Instead of nonsense and fabricated non truths-why not try and retort with some actual proof and facts regarding the Hunting Club?Show some actual proof that the club is Pro herd management and not just pro gaining properties to trophy hunt.
As for Killoran, he is a hack local lawyer and also represents lil Larry Citatelli and his parcel in Remsenburg.
You are correct about my username from the Suffolk Times and also Newsday-some of the other outlets where you try to BS people with the stories and falsities and where I provide the FACTS to help people understand.
Did you and your hunting club perform the investigation to uncover ...more who you think I am?Did you scream EUREKA! when you thought you pieced the puzzle together.
I know the truth.You can't sell your BS to someone who knows facts and understands proper deer herd management.
Why do you want so bad to get your club on the North Fork.......oh of course........you know the area holds good sized Antlered deer........come on buddy........ The jig is up.........don't let the small bit of attention that your hunting club has received go to your head.
You and your hunting club could care less about the health of the deer herd and proper mangement........you are blinded by Antlers and the small bit of attention you receive.
You promote the club under the guise that you are doing the right thing.As I have stated before several times-provide some real facts and proof of the good that your hunting club does for the herd and I won't need to provide correct information all the time.All that ever comes from you and your cohorts is childish and ridiculous comments to try and redirect the attention away from the club's BS.
Come up with some amount of factual data and information for these pitiful rebuttals.......they don't help the image of the hunting club at all.