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Aug 25, 2010 4:23 PMPublication: The Southampton Press

Hampton Bays civic leaders make their own redevelopment pitch

Aug 25, 2010 4:23 PM

The supervisor said she hopes to hold an open meeting to discuss the Rechlers plans in mid-September, possibly in a Hampton Bays school.

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"Hampton Bays United—a group that includes 14 leaders representing the Hampton Bays Civic Association"

Who are these 14 "leaders" does anyone know? Do they have names? Does the Press know who they are or who they represent?
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 25, 10 9:10 PM
Go to a meeting at the library sometime, it is mostly old people representing us, I think the age demographic alone shows how unrepresentative of the HB community it is.
Her three proposals are ridiculous, she should mind her own business before we all get together and start telling her what color flowers she can plant!
By ICE (1214), Southhampton on Aug 25, 10 11:44 PM
2 members liked this comment
They meet the 3rd Thursday of every month, I think @ 7:00pm the library has the schedule posted.

By ICE (1214), Southhampton on Aug 25, 10 11:47 PM
ITS the old people that want to keep the neighborhoods good. Get rid of the fire trap Canoe Place Inn and the dump next door and across the street. Build the condos there. Renew the lease at Tiderunners. Do you realize this is the most beautiful place in Hampton Bays on the north side to see the boats and have a cocktail and dinner ? This is the landmark. Do not destroy it. We have a public park on the west side where all the fishermen are.
By longislander40 (37), hampton bays on Aug 29, 10 6:32 PM
1 member liked this comment
The tiderunners is a landmark? You have to be kidding!

By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 7:28 PM
i dont know who they are but they seem to think they speak for all h bays residents. mary jean green i know is a whack job- she writes letters to the editor constantly suggesting all kinds of ridiculous things- ive read her letters and most of her facts are wrong and she substitutes her opinions for reality often.

we would all be better off if mary and her united morons would sit down and shut up
By CaptainSig (716), Dutch Harbor on Aug 25, 10 9:24 PM
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This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By fidelis (199), westhampton beach on Aug 26, 10 11:08 AM
It's probably for the Rechlers themselves, rather than Supervisor Throne-Holst, to say whether the Rechlers are interested in any of Mary Jean Green's proposals, but in fact they don't any of them sound commercially realistic and probably won't fly. Likewise it's fair to question how wide a cross-section of local opinion Ms. Green's group represents, but if they had a good idea, it really wouldn't matter that much. Unfortunately, they don't seem to. The Canoe Place Inn may be worth preserving, ...more
By fidelis (199), westhampton beach on Aug 26, 10 11:08 AM
The only viable proposal is the condos + CPI restoration + preserving hampton bays land but ONLY if the land were preserved through purchasing Pine Barrens Credits for Pine Barrens parcels in Hampton Bays and at roughly $90,000/credit for essentially 40 credits (1 for each condo) that = $3,600,000 a stiff fee to build condos but not completely absurd.

What the Town needs to do is call their bluff and let them do what they want with CPI. Their only commercial as-of-right that does NOT ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 11:30 AM
Are you sure about that as-of-right thing? You'd better make sure that you double check your facts before doing as some do and passing on bad information. According to the article, the Town will present exactly what they are entitled to as of right. That should be interesting.

This developer has I am sure, done his homework. Finding out what is as of right and whether it would be viable would be part of that homework.

I do know that there is a question of whether or not the ...more
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 4:16 PM
Yes, I'm sure. Check for yourself here:


They bought the property hoping they could get a PDD, or a Special Exemption which is where the big money lies. Both of those options would allow for condos and those types of things are granted frequently. However, the Town Board want's to preserve CPI because that's what the residents want (apparently) so if they are so concerned ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 8:53 PM
They can build a lot more that you seem to think.
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 9:08 PM
Based on what facts? Yes, if the Town grants them a Change of Zone, or a Special Exemption, they have a lot of possible uses. The table above clearly indicates what commercial uses are Permitted in RWB - and the only two true commercial uses are Restaurant and Restaurant Take-out. If you disagree, please give me some facts.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 9:37 PM
I'm not quite sure what bb is referring to as half-truths. As to the wacky assertions about the United group. It was just one meeting. There are several groups in HB who have been meeting for over a year on this issue. It's not just 14 people or "old people," which is a very insulting comment. The United group is just the executive committee members of all of the HB associations. It's a shame that Mary Jean stepped down. She did a lot of work on this issue. The Rechlers can't build what they really ...more
By sirpoochala (78), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 5:47 PM
They are proposing a Sewage Treatment Plant in conjunction with the condos.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 8:44 PM
Yes they are. Mary Jean claims that it isn't state of the art. The point was that without a PDD there is no treatment, state of the art or not.

"The United group is just the executive committee members of all of the HB associations."

Sorry this is not true.
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 9:07 PM
Sorry if you are insulted by your age, but the meeting I observed was a group of people all over 55 most over 65. Now being that Wiki lists 16.5% of the Hampton Bays populace as over 65 it seems as though this age group is more than adequately represented, while many others are not.
By ICE (1214), Southhampton on Aug 26, 10 10:17 PM
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they are proposing a septic system that is inadequate. The Rechlers aren't proposing a system that any environmental scientist would be suggesting or that would adequately protect the waterways from this type of development so close to the canal. We need to be even more careful given the red and brown tide problems that we are having.
By sirpoochala (78), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:26 PM
by "your age?" Are you telling me that I am what you called "old people?" Far from it!
By sirpoochala (78), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:27 PM
Where did you get that information?

Any and all Sewage Treatment Plants would need to be approved by the Suffolk County Dept. of Health Services and any and all systems would need to be reviewed under SEQRA (State Environmental Quality Review Act). The Rechler's don't get to put in whatever system they want and any STP that is put into service will have to file monthly reports with the County to insure compliance.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 11:07 AM
Any STP would have to be approved by the Suffolk County Dept. of Health Services and would be subject to monthly inspections to ensure the facility is operating within the safe guidelines for sewage treatment.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 9:39 PM
That makes sense. I figured there had to be some approval of it other than by the developer.
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 9:59 PM
I still digress to not being able to comprehend how something not on the water is zoned RWB. It just defies logic.
By ICE (1214), Southhampton on Aug 26, 10 10:19 PM
I wouldn't begin to debate that anything to do with the town defies logic!
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 10:36 PM
You can SEE the water from it.... that's really that hard to comprehend?
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 11:22 PM
Nature by that reasoning the Bridge golf course in Bridgehampton could be zoned RWB. I don't think you can SEE the water as well as you may think from the CPI, you should go take a look. You can SEE where the water is, but not actually SEE the water itself, unless there was a storm tide.

Incase you aren't aware, SEEing the water does not mean a property is waterfront, it means it is waterview and even that is questionable in this instance.
By ICE (1214), Southhampton on Aug 27, 10 4:02 AM
Sorry - should have been more clear. You can SEE the water from ACROSS the street.

The purpose of RWB zoning is to have a zoning district that allows uses that are associated with the water. Marinas, Restaurants, Musuems, Yacht Clubs, Hotels and Resorts. These uses bring in tourists dollars and are much better uses of waterfront and very near waterfront properties than private homes.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 27, 10 9:16 AM
Go down to Town Hall and look at the zoning map. Most of the homes in RWB zones aren't directly on the water including my own and I am in an RWB zone.
By sirpoochala (78), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:29 PM
I'm not seeing how that relates to my point? Town's change zoning on parcels (especially specific zoning like RWB) so that when the property is re-developed it has to be developed in a certain way. So if you sell your house and someone comes and knocks it down - they would have to get a change of zone to put a house back there.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 9:21 AM
The Rechlers's comments couldn't be more reasonable coming, as they do, from property owners in a free market. The community should have no problem with the compromise ATH got them to agree to, AS LONG AS-and this is a HUGE condition-the town requires detailed design standards for both the CPI and the condos. The CPI's restoration must be at the highest and historically accurate design and must specify the materials to be used. Design and materials are no less important for the condos. They must ...more
By gordie howe (55), hockeytown usa on Aug 27, 10 7:46 AM
1 member liked this comment
Denisty is irrelevant? Tell that to the overcrowded schools, understaffed police/EMT/Fire, unblanaced tax inputs/outputs, environmental stresses placed on our bays, increased draw on our freshwater aquifers, decrease in air quality, increase in traffic congestion, etc. etc.

What a completely asanine statement.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 27, 10 9:12 AM
You certainly have a point. They do own the property they do have property rights. Why is it that no one thought of the possibility of development BEFORE the property was sold. I seem to remember a plan a few years back to develop the canal area as a "wharf" similar to Gossman's in Montauk. Oh my these same people were in an uproar. Now, we are looking at more development. Unfortunately development happens and forward thinking is needed. After the property is sold there is little you can do ...more
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 27, 10 9:50 AM
"They can not build condos then ignore the Inn. Also, these restraints would pass on to any subsequent owners."

Just to back up that claim - it's a requirement of the PDD under the avenue of "Public Benefits" so they would be legally obligated to do it and the Town, theoretically, could get a bond to ensure it is done.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 27, 10 11:09 AM
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Thanks for the back up.

The question has been asked about what assurances we'd have, which is valid.
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 27, 10 2:10 PM
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Aug 28, 10 6:56 PM
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“The concern I have is that if we say no to this because the idea of 40 condos is too painful, that we won’t be happy with what does go in [on the Canoe Place Inn property],” Ms. Throne-Holst responded.

This is Ms. Holst's answer to everything, it is called a "false choice" threat. She said the same thing about the proposed Tuckahoe Mega-mall-monstrosity. Try a new one, Ms. Holst.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Aug 30, 10 12:04 PM
Hampton Bays is a dump and always has been a dump. The only area worse is Flanders. Sounds like Hampton bays residents have shinnecock canal envy.
By Walt (292), Southampton on Aug 31, 10 12:06 AM
You forgot about Riverside... pretty sure that's worse than Hampton Bays.

And you obviously haven't spent a lot of time in Hampton Bays if you are calling it a "dump". It has two of the largest homes in the Town of Southampton (villages excluded) which are both new constructions. These people wouldn't spend their time/money on a home in HB if it were such a dump.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 9:19 AM
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I'd rather live in the dumpiest part of Hampton Bays than next a grouchy old codger like Walt any day!
As for the Shinnecock Canal envy statement, it doesn't make sense, it is in Hampton Bays, so what is there to envy?
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Aug 31, 10 3:04 PM
hey walt you've probably never taken a drive over the ponquogue bridge. I'll challenge you to find a nicer place in southaamton
By fish sticks (53), hampton bays on Aug 31, 10 10:01 AM
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I find this whole thing absurd. Does no one understand what exactly CPI is? While it's history dates back to the 1700s, the building has burned down, with its current structure being built in the 1920s. Nothing that remains from the original building. This means the colonial history, the Tammany hall history, etc has been burned down. Since then it was used for proms, parties, etc. While this building holds memories for many people, it cannot be a historical site (legally) because there is nothing ...more
By hamptonbayyresident (3), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 2:48 PM
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Actually Tamaany Hall was after the 1920s...hence this building.

If the Rechlers preseve the facade as they have offered or not, it shall still bring in jobs. Surely you realize that no one wants to keep the building in the state it is in, nor do they want a bar/club there. Additionally restoration removes the fire hazard, perhaps you need reread what the intent is.
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 4:25 PM
By hamptonbayyresident (3), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 7:01 PM
I've attached an article about Tammany Hall that might clear some things up. You can also look on any website about the history of Tammany Hall. It's peak was in the late 19th/ early 20th century. Once the building was rebuilt, that history was already lost and Tammany was not nearly as strong or significant as it was in the late 1900s up until the 1920s. By 1932, FDR was elected President and the Tammany Mayor of New York was forced out of office.

If you want to talk about jobs that last, ...more
By hamptonbayyresident (3), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 7:19 PM
I didn't address the condos, you said to tear down the building. That is two different things.

There will be condos regardless of the Inn is torn down or not.
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 7:27 PM
That's not true at all... the Town Board has to grant the Rechlers the right to build condos through either a zone change (Multi-Family or PDD) or through a Special Exemption.

Open your ears and eyes and don't let the Rechlers and ATH fool you.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 10:42 PM
It has been empirically shown, time and time again, that attached homes (condos) on average generate 1/20th of a school age child per home. Using this standard, the proposal would generate two kids for our school. However since the proposed are up-scale, for-sale residences, my bet is that they will generate no school kids. Any way you look at them, they will be tax positive for our schools.As far as the environment, a sewage treatment facility sure beats the cesspools currently in use along the ...more
By gordie howe (55), hockeytown usa on Aug 31, 10 10:39 PM
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Your figures for school aged children are wrong - using a model that is considered an industry standard created by Rutgers University, attached units generate approximately .20 school aged children/unit (maybe your 1/20th was derived from .20?). So that means there would be approximately 7 school-aged children. Not a huge issue, but not negligible (especially when you consider how many condo conversions there have been in recent years in HB. There was a moratorium on condo conversions for a reason). ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 31, 10 10:56 PM
Nature your addition is off, 40 x .20 = 8
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Sep 2, 10 5:05 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Sep 2, 10 10:04 PM
Should have been more clear. The actual rate is: .185 which is why I stated "approximately .20". So .185 X 40 = 7.428 which would be rounded to 7 but it's =/- 1 and it's multiplication - not addition. But I see your point
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Sep 2, 10 10:04 PM
HAHA, yes multiplication! I swear I was thinking arithmetic. Those numbers make it crystal clear, just think how low HB taxes would be if that rate held true for all HB housing!

I am with you on the density, I don't understand why in this market the developers want to push forward with their project. Is the condo market somehow in demand?
The ones across from SBSH still have empty units, although they are not waterfront.
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Sep 3, 10 4:56 AM
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Walt you probably live on hillcrest!!
By GoldenBoy (351), EastEnd on Aug 31, 10 10:58 PM
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To the androgynous "ICE" entity: gray hair does not imply an absence of the more relevant "gray matter." And, when attending and observing the "old people" at community meetings, why not directly debate and contribute, rather than hide behind a veil of anonymity ? Better yet: why not start your own age restricted (20 to 30 somethings) group and articulate your views.
To Gordie Howe and Re the condo issue: it's about density and aggregate impacts on the hamlet and its environment, period (not ...more
By Rainfall (22), Hampton Bays on Sep 2, 10 5:55 PM
I was just stating facts, the older demographic of our community is disproportionately represented in the HB CAC. This isn't to say that they are not competent, just grossly over represented in proportion to other age groups. To have a true representation of the community it would have to be a more diverse group. I wouldn't say that they are an age restricted group, as I believe all ages are welcome to participate. As for debating a bunch of seniors it is a slippery slope, as it would be easy for ...more
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Sep 2, 10 8:24 PM
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And to whom should we ascribe the blame for that ? If you and other presumptive members of the younger set fail to come forward and enunciate your views and actually PARTICIPATE in the democratic process --- then how would you suggest to alter the representation demographic and attain heightened diversity ? Whether old folks or not, at least there is evidence of interest and thought process, which can not be legitimately subjected to criticism. Apathy won't cut it and you really should not be overly ...more
By Rainfall (22), Hampton Bays on Sep 3, 10 5:00 PM
Not blaming anyone, was merely stating the composition of the HB CAC. I imagine may of the people below the retirement age are working full time and some probably have children. These things tend to monopolize their schedules. Not that 1.5 to 2 hours a month is too difficult to fit in, but it is much easier for a senior citizen with an open schedule. I do truly believe there are some good ideas that come out of the group, but many are stifled by John the groups liaison to the Town Board. I didn't ...more
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Sep 3, 10 9:09 PM
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Seems we were referencing two distinct community groups: the one you mention (Hampton Bays CAC) is designed to function as the pipeline between the Town Board and the community. Members, upon submittal of request, are appointed by the Town Board. Incidentally, John is no longer the Chair of that group. Each of the Town's hamlets has its own CAC entity.The other group featured in The Press article is the Hampton Bays Civic Association, a volunteer membership organization founded in 1918, whose ...more
By Rainfall (22), Hampton Bays on Sep 5, 10 5:29 PM