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Apr 29, 2015 10:28 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

Traffic Questions Continue To Confound As Board Closes Tuckahoe Center Hearing

Apr 29, 2015 10:28 AM

Southampton Town Board members continued to struggle this week with deciphering how the technical analyses of traffic volumes would affect the flow of vehicles along already-congested County Road 39 if they were to approve an application for a new King Kullen shopping center near the Magee Street intersection in Tuckahoe.

As traffic experts labored to clarify differences in engineering lingo, like “pass-by trips” and “primary trips,” and award letter grades to existing and hypothetical traffic conditions, board members repeatedly threw back questions about what their mathematical formulas would mean for the brake pads on commuters’ cars on weekday mornings and evenings.

The board closed the public hearing at the conclusion of Tuesday night’s meeting—over the objections of some opponents who said many questions are still unanswered—leaving two weeks for additional comments in writing. The change of zone application will now be back in the hands of the developers—Robert Morrow, who developed the King Kullen shopping center in Hampton Bays, and local businessmen Lyle Pike, Lance Nil and property owner Marc Zucchero—to draft a Final Environmental Impact Statement that addresses the concerns raised during the five public hearings on the matter.

The town’s planning department will then be tasked with deciding whether the document and application adequately address the potential impacts, and Town Board members will be left to cast their votes. There is no required additional public comment on the application under the guidelines of the State Environmental Quality Review Act.

As they wrestled with the scientific analysis of the purported impacts of the shopping center and the various reasons residents have given supporting the need for a new supermarket, the light in which some board members appeared to be viewing the application in general began to brighten, though whether there will be enough votes to give the 40,000-square-foot supermarket, and connected retail and banking spaces, the green light is still unclear.

“The question we’re being asked to consider is, ‘Will 60,000 square feet of retail have a detrimental impact on the traffic … in a network of roads that are already experiencing E’s and F’s,’” the clearly most skeptical board member, Councilwoman Bridget Fleming, said. She was referencing the grades—the lowest ones possible—that engineers have assigned to the existing traffic conditions during peak hours on both County Road 39 and Montauk Highway. “If my child was getting E’s and F’s, I would not give him more of the work that is troubling him.

“So, is it going to have an impact that, no matter what the traffic engineers come up with, will not be mitigated to the satisfaction and to the safety and the quality of life of the citizens that have to travel these roads,” she added, drawing a burst of applause from project opponents who, on Tuesday, seemed to outnumber supporters for the first time in the hearings held on the application, known as the Tuckahoe Center.

Some other board members did not appear to be quite as accepting of the dire picture of what life would be like for those navigating County Road 39 if the board ultimately approves the application.

“There are times of the day that this is rock bottom as it is, it’s no good … but all of us act and react according to what we know is the lay of the land out here,” Supervisor Anna Throne-Holst said. “What I’m trying to understand, from a pure decision-making perspective is … in the hours when people would seek something like this … what is the impact then?”

But the traffic analysts seemed to mostly fail at offering the sort of layman’s answers that board members wanted, largely because their analyses could operate only within the parameters of accepted mathematical understandings, obscured behind percentages and numbers under varying conditions.

“I think these numbers are making us all crazy,” Ms. Throne-Holst said at one point, after one exchange with the developer’s traffic consultant, Patrick Lenihan of VHB Engineering. “Talk to us like we’re 10 year olds.”

Mr. Lenihan acknowledged that the preexisting conditions on County Road 39 are likely much worse than what the mathematical analysis would appear to demonstrate but that, conversely, the impacts of the grocery store shown in the studies were probably not as bad as they appeared because they did not account for the many motorists who would be on the highway regardless, namely heading to a different grocery store if the Tuckahoe one did not exist.

“This doesn’t tell the whole story,” Mr. Lenihan said.

Town-hired consultant Ron Hill of Dunn Engineering made the point that adding more traffic to a roadway that is already experiencing the worst possible congestion would not worsen the situation; rather, it would simply extend the length of time for which the preexisting condition existed, he said. That length of time, he argued, was actually relatively short, a matter of an hour or so in the morning and again in the late afternoon and early evening.

And the stretching of the period of worst congestion due to added slow-downs from cars entering and exiting the roadway to the shopping center’s parking lots would be a minor added inconvenience, he added. “The morning peak hour is so early that the new center probably wouldn’t really have any effect on it,” Mr. Hill said. “In the afternoon … what happens with the peaks is that if the volume can’t get through … it spreads out.”

Ms. Fleming expressed skepticism regarding why Mr. Hill’s assessments of the traffic analysis conducted by the applicants’ engineers, VHB Engineering, had shifted from quite critical in a January letter to the board to accepting, if not wholly in agreement, on Tuesday night. Mr. Hill said it was largely because the engineers had retooled their estimates and made some changes to the project’s design—most significantly, eliminating a proposed left-turn entrance to the center for westbound vehicles.

Opponents of the project, mostly residents of Tuckahoe and adjacent Southampton Village neighborhoods, were not as satisfied with the changes and continued to question whether the perceived need for the supermarket was so great that it would justify its placement on such a problematic roadway.

“Smart people don’t make zone changes based on convenience—they make them out of necessity,” said Rachel Verno, a Water Mill resident and co-chair of the Water Mill Citizens Advisory Committee. “If someone’s biggest inconvenience of the day is that they have to drive a few miles to the grocery store … they live a charmed life. Common sense tells you … there is nowhere on this corridor that this kind of shopping center would ever be appropriate and certainly not if it’s a matter of convenience.”

Echoing the points made by the developers throughout the evening, supporters drove home the point that if there were a supermarket closer to their homes, they would not be traveling on County Road 39 to get to supermarkets in Southampton Village, Bridgehampton and Hampton Bays.

“I’m going to be on County Road 39 anyway, coming from North Sea, getting into the shopping center and off the road is going to reduce traffic,” said Christopher Gray. “Just because you’re putting a grocery store here doesn’t mean more people are going to start shopping.”

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If there were a supermarket closer to home they would not be traveling to Southampton village, Bridgehampton or Hampton Bays. That logic is not correct. There is a movie theater and restaurants in Southampton and people still drive County Road 39 to go to movies or restaurants in Bridgehampton or Hampton Bays. You don't rezone for convenience.
By metsfan2 (163), southampton on Apr 29, 15 12:37 PM
This article is missing an important point in that it has always been assumed that the this project was being put up to accommodate a King Kullen supermarket. Apparently, this is not the case. Many in the community that are supporting this project, like myself, are doing so, I believe, on the expectations and desire for a King Kullen. I would suggest that the board hold off on approving anything until there is a firm on their part that they will be the occupant. It is that that the community desires ...more
By Toma Noku (616), uptown on Apr 29, 15 12:40 PM
1 member liked this comment
That is just plain discriminatory. The branding of the supermarket is not a reasonable factor in approval.
By VOS (1241), WHB on Apr 29, 15 3:50 PM
1 member liked this comment
The uncertainty I think stems only from the fact that the project is not yet approved. The grocery store “tenant” has nothing to sign on to since technically, at this point, the center does not exist. It has been bandied about that it would be KK for a long time, so much so, that people are depending on it, however, there have been many who have suggested that a Trader Joe’s, Fairway, or some other store be considered in addition to KK. At one hearing, there was a nod to the developer ...more
By Rickenbacker (257), Southampton on Apr 30, 15 11:52 AM
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Whether the supermarket is KK or Stop and Shop, to me, does not matter as much as there being a commitment from a major, "standard' supermarket that will occupy that space. So a firm commitment from one of these major companies is not unreasonable in light of the changes being requested to have this. It would certainly leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth if instead a Wal-Mart or Target, for example, were to occupy the space. We would all feel duped.

I hear a lot about putting in stores ...more
By Toma Noku (616), uptown on May 1, 15 10:47 AM
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The Waldbaums in Westhampton is a completely different store than the one in Southampton. It's clean, well-stocked and has some of the best produce and meat around-- so I put the blame entirely on the mgmt. of the Southampton store and I have no sympathy if people don't want to shop there. I know I don't.
By johnj (1024), Westhampton on May 4, 15 1:30 PM
Well stated Rachel!
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Apr 29, 15 5:17 PM
1 member liked this comment
10 year olds

“I think these numbers are making us all crazy,” Ms. Throne-Holst said at one point, after one exchange with the developer’s traffic consultant, Patrick Lenihan of VHB Engineering. “Talk to us like we’re 10 year olds.”

Traffic Spreads Out

Mr. Hill said. “In the afternoon … what happens with the peaks is that if the volume can’t get through … it spreads out.”

Perhaps one of our 10 year ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Apr 29, 15 10:53 PM
1 member liked this comment
Queen Anna's bending over backwards for Morrow and Company has been difficult to stomach. Her obvious acquiescence begs the question of WHY? Why is She so in favor of an ill conceived, poorly sited project?
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Apr 30, 15 6:26 AM
1 member liked this comment
So let's punish Morrow, because politicians couldn't plan for future density. Maybe the politicians were too worried about getting former political hacks jobs at OTB than their jobs. Just an observation.
By chief1 (2800), southampton on Apr 30, 15 7:21 AM
1 member liked this comment
Exactly how does requiring Morrow to adhere to current zoning requirements constitute punishing him?

You purchase land knowing the zoning and make your profit/loss calculation predicated on that zoning. You know what you can build.

Please explain your logic here Chief.

Oh and no such thing as a former political hack, that like the federal bench has a lifetime tenure attached to it.
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Apr 30, 15 11:05 AM
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Put in a parking garage on site and have shuttles from there.
By Mouthampton (439), Southampton on Apr 30, 15 9:05 AM
I had the pleasure of attending this contentious hearing and speaking against the project. There were some young people among the proponents, and a couple of them played the youth card, saying that Tuckahoe Center represents "progress" and suggesting that their demographic has real need of this additional shopping alternative.

They are of course wrong about convenience vs. need, about job opportunities, about effect on the local economy, about traffic consequences, and about relative ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1979), Quiogue on Apr 30, 15 12:12 PM
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George, on the topic progress.

Progress would be a supermarket where all items were ordered online and delivered by truck.

That would alleviate the flow of traffic, limiting it to how ever many truck rides were necessary to make the days deliveries.

Progress would, to me at least, imply, the use of new technology, not the same old hope in the horse and buggy (okay automobile) spew out lots of carbon to pollute the atmosphere, one passenger per vehicle increasing what any ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Apr 30, 15 1:17 PM
Certainly you aren't suggesting that CR 39 needs a preservation initiative. The great Bald Eagle isn't nesting on the corner of McGee and CR39. The Deer and the Antelope do not play near the proposed site of this zone change. There is however, a statue of a giant Tyrannosaurus Rex, right down the road. I also, am appalled at your suggestion that the 'needs' of the younger generation should be dismissed as 'conveniences', because we don't fall into a what you perceive as the prominent voting ...more
By B-Diz (7), Sag Harbor on Apr 30, 15 1:28 PM
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Brandee, just re-read my post. If you had read it with any care in the first place, you wouldn't be writing most of what you're writing. Pay special attention, please, to the list of items about which you're wrong, and if you like, try and convince us all otherwise, but don't just stamp your foot and say, "I want it, so it's necessary."

One item I didn't cover -- because it seems so self-evident to me -- is that yes, CR 39 does need a preservation initiative. When we speak of preservation, ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1979), Quiogue on Apr 30, 15 9:36 PM
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Brandi! Hi, I wondered when you would show up here. It's been entertaining watching you speak in support of the shopping center at the DEIS meetings as if you were simply someone who wants a new market. The LOL part is that you work for one of the principals in the shopping center project, and you think we all don't know that. Think again.
By moonpie (43), Southampton on May 1, 15 12:00 AM
2 members liked this comment
"Bastard Suburbia"?

Not on our watch...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on May 1, 15 3:35 AM
Wow Moonpie. What a snotty little remark you just made. You really figured me out. My dirty little secret, that I've NEVER HIDDEN. Glad I could entertain you. I believe this project would be great for the people that it will serve. You don't agree, so you attack ME? You are insinuating that I am not allowed to have my own opinion and share it. I'm sick and tired of being discounted, by the opposition because of my relationship with Lance Nill. I am not engaged to him. I do not live with ...more
By B-Diz (7), Hampton Bays on May 1, 15 11:34 AM
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To compare the recently approved PDDs with this change of zone application is to create a false equivalency. Yes, it is unfortunate that the many years those other projects have been in discussion happen to have gotten their approvals at about the same as this one may, but this project is the ONLY one that serves the community in general. The others are PDDs targeted for a very specific demographic, which are a very different animals. The Tuckahoe Center is not trashing the Comprehensive Plan, either, ...more
By Rickenbacker (257), Southampton on May 1, 15 12:46 PM
It always astounds me why the sharp dressed and well coiffed Mr. Lynch would seek to preserve this eyesore. What amuses me further is his praise for the preservation of the area by not implementing an appropriate road system as a means of keeping people away. Well they have come and continue to do so and if you unfortunately live along the many side roadways East of the Lobster Grille, now, you feel the impact of the poor planning and wrong thinking of the past generations. Of course if you live ...more
By Toma Noku (616), uptown on May 1, 15 2:37 PM
You're right, Rickenbacker, this isn't a PDD like those others; Tuckahoe Center is now a change of zone application. I think it may have started as a PDD, but your guys got smart and realized that a PDD requires 4 out of 5 Town Board votes for approval and also calls for substantial community benefit to be provided.

With a change of zone application, you only need 3 of the 5 Board members to approve, and you don't have to show any community benefit. Clever little switch, so who cares ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1979), Quiogue on May 1, 15 3:10 PM
Hey, Toma Noku, thanks for the kind words. They'd mean more to me if you weren't so mistaken on substance. What you call "an appropriate road system," i.e., an interstate-equivalent limited access highway serving the entire South Fork, was rejected by the people long ago, and complain as they do about the present system, you really don't hear many voices seriously suggesting that the superhighway alternative be revived. Why? I say it's because people are willing to pay the price to keep our ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1979), Quiogue on May 1, 15 3:35 PM
Turkey Bridge, I think you are editorializing pretty wide of what I said. The original PDD included an apartment housing component on the IGHL property, and there was a larger scale to the shopping/office center as originally envisioned (think the King Kullen development in Hampton Bays). Since it was clear early on that strong local opposition, primarily on the housing piece (right out in front, let’s address it, neighbors didn’t want more school children in Tuckahoe School, wonder ...more
By Rickenbacker (257), Southampton on May 3, 15 2:41 PM
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Rickenbacker, regardless of the history you recite, it has still morphed from a 4-vote PDD application with theoretical community benefits, into a 3-vote zone change application with zero community benefits. That's the bottom line.

There's a subjective element to CR 39 preservation, as with all questions of aesthetics. Your trash is my treasure, etc. Fact is, though, plenty of change is available as of right to a property owner. It's just that your guy isn't satisfied with his as-of-right ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1979), Quiogue on May 3, 15 4:21 PM
I agree with you certainly that the change in application comes with a difference in what it takes to win approval. I doubt the vote-count was a huge part of the calculation since the two projects are so different from each other, but I’m sure the zoning issue entered into their thinking when trying to figure out how best to make a plan work on the commercial part of the property. The developer didn’t craft the zoning or the comprehensive plans, so why is it a problem if they pitched ...more
By Rickenbacker (257), Southampton on May 4, 15 8:57 AM
All a matter of perspective, Rickenbacker. Just as your trash could be my treasure, what you see as "trying to figure out how best to make a plan work," I see as a cynical maneuver to win approval by an easier route.

Re as-of-right vs. zone change, it goes back to why this stretch was zoned Highway Business and not Shopping Center Business in the first place. As-of-right Highway Business, even with the 4 curb cuts and 4 establishments, will have dramatically less in-and-out traffic, ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1979), Quiogue on May 4, 15 10:11 AM
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We’ll have to agree to disagree on the point. I understand your perspective, just don’t think it was a cynical maneuver as you are suggesting. On the point about trash vs. treasure…no… it really is just trash in this case.

I apologize about the Quiogue remark. You are correct, we all have an interest in topics around the town and you have as much right as anyone to weigh in, even if you don’t personally live nearby.

But where you are, to my mind, ...more
By Rickenbacker (257), Southampton on May 4, 15 1:29 PM
"As-envisioned"??? Interesting. A new zoning concept, demonstrating once again just how far some people are prepared to bend logic, language and law in order to get a wholly undeserved break. Good luck with that one.

You invoke the Comprehensive Plan's provision for shopping centers to accommodate increased population, but in fact the total population of the four nearest communities -- Tuckahoe, Shinnecock Hills, North Sea and Southampton Village -- dropped by almost 7% between the ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1979), Quiogue on May 4, 15 8:59 PM
I hope anyone else reading this sees that up to now I’ve tried to be reasonable with you in this dialog. But you continue to insinuate that I must have more to gain simply because my opinion differs from yours. Maybe it’s because I won’t back away from confronting your twisted logic. I have nothing more to gain. We need a better grocery store, this location is one of those rare ones left sufficient to be able to mount that better solution, and the fact is that the increasing density ...more
By Rickenbacker (257), Southampton on May 5, 15 9:05 AM
And that, my friend, seems to be it. I admire perseverance, and you certainly have it, wrong as you may be.
By Turkey Bridge (1979), Quiogue on May 5, 15 10:05 AM
to Rickenbacker:


"[S]ince you apparently live far west of the canal. ... you do not have much standing with regard to what is actually needed in that spot."

Herein you betray your prejudice. Your own opinion, in fact, is no more meritorious than Turkey Bridge's by virtue of your being a nearby resident. In fact, HIS opinion, supported not only by "local" data regarding this particular project's impact, but by his observation ...more
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on May 5, 15 10:08 AM
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I don’t betray a prejudice, I am reacting to one – where someone, whose opinion I do respect, does not respect mine, or attempts to undermine their presumptive respect by always suggesting, hinting, or otherwise implying doubt that my (or any other supporters') opinion is somehow not their own, but comes only because of some sinister relationship with the developer.

You may believe I am near-sighted in terms of the recent spate of PDDs approvals, but they are not the same things ...more
By Rickenbacker (257), Southampton on May 5, 15 1:57 PM
The single worst location possible.
No need for a mega market (or another bank).
Area is saturated with King Kullens, and they are pricey as hell.
Only need a nice, small market like a Trader Joe's or even a Best Buy where prices are reasonable, and where they offer items not available elsewhere.
By June Bug (2680), SOUTHAMPTON on Apr 30, 15 11:03 PM
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A developer develops, it's the nature of the beast. it's up to the Town Board to reign in the beast, so far they have not done this ,eg. CPI and A
Canal Condo project, Sandy Hollow Ghetto project, Golf in Quogue project and now this debacle. Did anyone else notice at the last meeting that the developer could not give a concrete answer as to what the tenant would be?No firm commitment from King Kullen. If this project is approved and the King isn't in there, what will be? K Mart perhaps? Is there ...more
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on May 1, 15 6:10 AM
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It is only 12.7 miles from the King Kullen in Hampton Bays to the King Kullen in Bridgehampton.

There is a Citeralla, Schmidts, Walbaums, Green Thumb, Milk Pail, etc. between the two stores.

Where is the need for a place to shop? What are people missing today?
May 1, 15 7:42 AM appended by adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp
There is probably something other than a supermarket that can be built on this site, what does Southampton actually need?
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (747), southampton on May 1, 15 7:42 AM
2 members liked this comment
I think your list may just convince some on the fence because in all that there is not one decent clean full service supermarket.

I might also remind you that there is no need based test in this process. There is obviously a demand for better food outlets in the area. If you are so easily satisfied by the substandard opportunities available, that's fine for you but your acceptance of the inferior does not apply to the public in general.
By VOS (1241), WHB on May 1, 15 2:49 PM
You don't realize how much you are over-paying till you shop in Riverhead. It's not convenient, but everybody buys gas and groceries if your up there. King Kullen really has a nice niche in Bridgehampton and makes you pay for it.
By Mets fan (1501), Southampton on May 1, 15 4:04 PM
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Are you saying that my list of King Kullen, Citeralla, Schmidts, Walbaums, Green Thumb, Milk Pail, and King Kullen does not present adequate options for food shopping? (If you're coming from WHB you can also add Stop and Shop, Wild By Nature, Sonny's Market)

If the list I presented isn't adequate how is the construction of a (3rd) King Kullen going to help you?

Also how are the existing King Kullen's not "decent clean full service supermarkets"?

Also also, in addition ...more
By adlkjd923Ilifmac.aIadfksdurw (1), Southampton on May 1, 15 4:14 PM
Best yet, Guinta's, Uncle Guiseppe's are much better options. The stores out here charge not based on cost, but what they can get away with.
By Mets fan (1501), Southampton on May 3, 15 7:34 PM
What I said is that nothing on your list of what is between the two King Kullens is a decent, clean, full service supermarket. That is what the people of the Southampton/Tuckahoe area need now. Reasonable prices would be nice, too but that ship may have sailed long ago.
By VOS (1241), WHB on May 3, 15 11:00 PM
Anyone who was impressed by the "traffic studies" is a moron. One only needs to have experience on 39, and to have common sense. Bridget Fleming has been spot-on with her interjections putting the lie to what is supposed to be evidence that this unnecessary market will not exacerbate what is already a nightmare. The argument that having a mega-market there would actually reduce 39 traffic is plain laughable. The reason to go to the neighboring towns to shop is because there are other stores ...more
By June Bug (2680), SOUTHAMPTON on May 1, 15 11:54 AM
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"... what does Southampton actually need?" asks adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp
That's easy, Affordable Housing for people who live and work here. What it doesn't need is more zoning changes for upscale townhouses and shopping centers, both of which will result in more vehicles on our already clogged roads. It also needs a new Supervisor and some new town board members who can think for themselves.
By moonpie (43), Southampton on May 1, 15 2:03 PM
Moon talking about the Supervisor, the one with a Real Estate Salespersons License. Might it not be a bit on the wrong side of ethics for anyone holding a Real Estate Sales license to be discussing construction, let alone voting on whether the development should be allowed.

Clearly one who wishes to sell real estate would be pointing out to potential purchasers the convenience of a local supermarket, after all otherwise they might have to travel 5 miles to the east or west.

Sure ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on May 1, 15 6:50 PM
Moon talking about the Supervisor, the one with a Real Estate Salespersons License. Might it not be a bit on the wrong side of ethics for anyone holding a Real Estate Sales license to be discussing construction, let alone voting on whether the development should be allowed.

Clearly one who wishes to sell real estate would be pointing out to potential purchasers the convenience of a local supermarket, after all otherwise they might have to travel 5 miles to the east or west.

Sure ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on May 1, 15 6:55 PM
We have all enjoyed the exchange of ideas about this proposal. It certainly provided an opportunity for us to talk about something more interesting than the weather. Now, it only waits for the board to approve the project by a 3-2 vote (or 4-1, if Brad Dum-De-Dum-Dum is predictably tractable.)

How fortunate we are to live in a democracy, wherein we call all express our opinions freely, rather than in a totalitarian dictatorship where only the "connected" can assert their viewpoints. ...more
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on May 1, 15 7:16 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Phanex (83), Southampton on May 2, 15 7:03 AM
2 members liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By B-Diz (7), Hampton Bays on May 2, 15 9:20 AM
Folks like me? Or folks like the rude people who have been attacking me for no reason, other than they disagree w/ my supporting a zone change?
By B-Diz (7), Hampton Bays on May 2, 15 1:23 PM
"The world went and got itself in a big damned hurry."

~ James Whitmore as Brooks Hatlen, "The Shawshank Redemption"
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on May 4, 15 7:40 PM
1 member liked this comment
No, a lot of UTIs (up the Islanders) move here because of the beauty and quality of life, but end up trying to change it to something resembling the Nassau County hell hole they moved from! Kind of like people moving next to an airport and beotching about the noise or someone buying a home abutting a farm and complaining about the noise , dust and associated activities. Better they stayed away in the first place.Rap that!
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on May 2, 15 2:25 PM
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Most of the people against the Tuckahoe Center are noisy democrats. Just tell them you'll have to pass and build the Tuckahoe Center to really see how it will impact traffic. They seem to be ok with that approach to major initiatives.
By TheoM (16), southampton on May 3, 15 6:32 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Phanex (83), Southampton on May 3, 15 6:34 AM
N Tiger do you really think that ATH shelved real estate licence is a conflict against her voting on construction projects?
You talk about malfeasance in goverment, but isn't it you who works at OTB a politically appointed position? Isn't it true OTB and the Suffolk County water district have always been a place to dump people who have political connections? If this is true I think it's unfair for you to blame govt.for anything. If you're talking ethics isn't wrong for you to get a job ...more
By chief1 (2800), southampton on May 3, 15 10:20 AM
I am not employed at OTB having retired a number of years ago. I was Corporate Counsel prior to my retirement and conducted myself in a fashion upholding the highest ethical standards do under my fiduciary responsibilities to that Corporation. My legal opinions as Counsel were not always popular but they were adhered to. I was respected by both my peers in OTB Corporations and by the members of the then Racing and Wagering Board.

Sometimes qualified people get political appointments, ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on May 3, 15 1:50 PM
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The point is that people should not sit on any political boards when they are employed by the county or any other municipality. I know you were highly qualified to do your job when you were employed at OTB. The truth is the OTB has been a dumping ground for washed up politicians, and party affiliates. You know as well as I that for every Neil Tiger there were 10 do nothing political flunkies taking up space at OTB. This includes a couple from Southampton Town. We also have the SCWA which is another ...more
By chief1 (2800), southampton on May 4, 15 9:36 AM
to NTiger:

While I enjoyed your rebuttal, I think that you erred. As far as I can tell, no one other than chief1 has ever questioned your ethics. Your rising to his ad hominem attack will only further encourage such behavior on his part (and detract from substantive argument.)

Readers of this forum are well aware of chief1's habitual employment of defamation in lieu of reason. His use of it here alerted us, in and of itself, that the opinions he expressed (re the topic and re ...more
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on May 4, 15 11:25 AM
If you are still arguing that people don't ''need'' this center, your premise is completely flawed. People make decisions on what they want, not what they need. Otherwise, nobody would own a Bentley.
By TheoM (16), southampton on May 4, 15 6:38 AM
As if every want must be satisfied, and every decision is right. To satisfy the selfish convenience for a few, you want to create a nightmare for the many?
By June Bug (2680), SOUTHAMPTON on May 8, 15 10:59 AM
True, but owning a Bentley doesn't adversely impact everyone around you!
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on May 4, 15 7:44 PM
See above: B-Diz(zy) continues with her "point if view" (sic). Which are the the points and views of the developers she is connected to and is performing for. Her problem is that she thinks a SEQRA hearing to be an opportunity to "rap" and rant off topic, and to prattle about representing youth and her generation. She is also based in Sag Harbor. She hopes I "get food poisoning". I just hope, that she goes back to Sag Harbor with her developer so that there is some chance of raising the ...more
By kvetch (14), Southold on May 5, 15 12:42 PM
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