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Story - News

Aug 1, 2012 10:01 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

Deferred Action Program Will Affect East End Dreamers

Aug 1, 2012 11:23 AM

At 2 years old, Angelica Uribe emigrated to America from Mexico with parents who were seeking “el Sueño Americano,” the American Dream, of financial stability and a brighter future.

But many years later, at age 17, the Bridgehampton resident said things aren’t as bright as they could be. As an undocumented immigrant, she has been unable to access the same opportunities as her American-born friends. Like many illegal immigrants, Angelica was in danger of deportation.

Until now.

In June, President Barack Obama issued an executive order to allow hundreds of thousands of young undocumented immigrants to remain in the country beginning in August. The Deferred Action program seems a promising policy to youth who have called America home for much of their lives.

But with a brand new policy in place, misinformation can spread. Hoping to nip it in the bud, the Immigration Legal Services of Long Island (ILSOLI) has begun offering advice to those who want to apply for Deferred Action, and last week the not-for-profit organization hosted an information session for interested parties at the Incarnation Lutheran Church in Bridgehampton.

With President Obama’s program—similar to the Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors, or the DREAM Act that has been debated in Congress for years but has yet to be approved—Angelica and other young immigrants will be able to gain legal status for two-year increments, which can be renewed, can apply for work permits, and will be eligible for in-state tuition, depending on the state.

According to Carlos Piovanetti, ILSOLI’s managing attorney, all New York State residents are already eligible for in-state tuition, but whether undocumented immigrants will be able to receive financial aid is unknown.

While a lot of the protocol is still up in the air, it is likely that those who are approved could apply for a temporary driver’s license, Mr. Piovanetti said.

In order to qualify for Deferred Action, however, applicants must be younger than 30 years old, must have been brought into the country before they were 16 years old and have lived here for at least five years. They must also be in school, have graduated from high school, or have served in the military. Applicants are not eligible, however if they’ve been convicted of a felony, or a significant misdemeanor offense, multiple misdemeanor offenses, or otherwise pose a threat to national or public security.

The government will begin accepting applications beginning on August 15 and no earlier.

Angelica said she plans on signing up right away.

“My story is familiar to many of you that are here,” she said in Spanish to a packed room full of parents and their children, as well as teen immigrants, at the church last Thursday, July 26. They listened as she explained her dilemma, first in Spanish and then retold in English.

After emigrating to the United States from Mexico, Angelica grew up as an American. Like any other teen, she took multiple Advanced Placement and honors courses at school, but when it was time to take driver’s education, she said she suffered a “blow.” She did not have a Social Security number, and because of that, she could not drive, or get financial aid for college, for that matter. She said it felt as if her high grades and work ethic didn’t matter because she wasn’t a U.S. citizen.

Angelica’s story is one that is common on the East End. According to Daniel Hartnett, a bilingual social worker at the East Hampton School District who volunteers with ISOLI, many students have come to him with the same worries. “Students like Angie, who are 15 and 16 years old, come into my office and have one question: ‘Why am I not equal to the students in my classes?’” he said in Spanish on Thursday. “‘I study very hard, I passed my Regents exams—why am I not equal?’”

In recent years, the increasing population of immigrants to the East End has created a hotbed of heated discussion among residents and politicians. The largest group of new residents are of Latino or Hispanic descent.

The number of people self-identifying as Hispanic or Latino in Southampton and East Hampton towns has swelled, according to figures in the 2010 Census. In East Hampton, the percentage climbed from 14 percent in 2000 to 26 percent in 2010, or 2,746 residents. In Southampton, that figure increased from 8 percent in 2000 to nearly 20 percent in 2010, for a total growth of 6,595 people. Most officials acknowledge both figures to be lower than the actual numbers, based on uncounted Hispanic and Latino residents.

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Congratulations, Mr. Uribe and thank you, President Obama!
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Aug 1, 12 12:27 PM
Congratulations, you've managed to gain legal status as hundreds of thousands who respect our laws wait patiently in line, and go through the vetting process that every sovereign nation is entitled to perform when deciding who to allow residency.

You'll also join the illegals entitled to taxpayer subsidized "in state" tuition rates, while hundreds of thousands of military members serving our country are denied the same benefits.

No wonder progressnow is so happy.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 1, 12 4:49 PM
She was brought here when she was two years old, dude. Give it a rest.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 1, 12 5:49 PM
Ahh, realityfirst, the king bagger himself. You need to find a new pony.
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Aug 1, 12 6:18 PM
Can you elaborate on the "hundreds of thousands of military members serving our country " who are denied these benefits?
And does that pertain to you or an immediate family member?
By Phadreus1340 (144), Southampton on Aug 2, 12 8:55 AM
So what? How many millions of parents would love to have their children recieve an education in the US?

You idiot liberals think we should be obligated to take on the social costs of every single child brought into the country illegally? Don't we have our own poor population that would benefit from the resources being consumed by those who forced their way into the country.

It's not our fault that child was brought into the country illegally, the blame lies solely with the parents, ...more
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:16 AM
In most states, a person serving in the military, and their family members, are not entitled to subsidized "in-state" tuition rates.

By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:19 AM
1 member liked this comment
To clarify, a military member and their familiy members stationed away from their home state are not automatically granted in-state tuition rates as illegal immigrants now are.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:22 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 1, 12 4:42 PM
2 members liked this comment
I certainly hope this child does not read the comments left by you bigoted ignoramuses who simply don't know when to keep your mouths shut.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 1, 12 5:50 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Aug 1, 12 6:17 PM
1 member liked this comment
That sounds like a threat. Are you gong to "shut my mouth", or are you just as impotant as your rage?
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:18 AM
witch hazel: Were you're parents(if you had 2), also left wing haters of America, or is that a psychosis you developed later in life?
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:26 AM
1 member liked this comment
Hey, reality last, you hadn't even posted when I made my comment. What's the matter, feeling guilty. If only my rage were as potent (spelled with an "e", brainiac) as your ignorance and bigotry. By the way, if you want to use physical threats, how about you start by using your real name, or do you prefer to hide behind your ironic screen name. Perhaps your too busy bashing young girls trying to make a way for themselves in this world, you cowardly tool.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 2, 12 2:57 PM
No Phil Motyka, I just intend on holding you accountable for your statements.

I also have to wonder how you would control your rage and hatred for anyone not in line with your leftist world view. Would you take it out on their children? You probobly couldn't help yourself.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 9, 12 8:50 PM
My problem is not with immigrants, but with illegal immigrants. Thank you Mr. Pres. for being part of the problem, not part of the solution. If I wanted to support a lot of children,I would have had them myself...
By bridge (7), bridgehampton on Aug 1, 12 6:22 PM
Those who encourage illegal immigration, the resultant drain on our resources, and the crime that follows are the problem.

It's nice to see you're so concerned about the ability of the wealthy to keep having access to cheap labor though.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:24 AM
1 member liked this comment
Here's a news flash. The undocumented immigrants, or whatever the correct term is, are here to stay. Get over it. I'm not saying if that's right or wrong, but the reality is they are not leaving, either by choice or force of the US Government. Just isn't going to happen, ever, get used to it.
Find your next battle.
Aug 3, 12 9:36 PM appended by Phadreus1340
Thats isn't an edict of mine. It is just the way it is. Are you aware of a single politician, even those endorsedd by the Tea Party people, that have put forth a plan to deport anyone? It is all a shell game to keep you folks busy yacking on and on rather than speaking of issues that have a solution.
By Phadreus1340 (144), Southampton on Aug 1, 12 9:36 PM
1 member liked this comment
Why, because you say so? Throw the employers of illegals into jail and see how quickly they self deport.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:27 AM
Why, because you say so? Throw the employers of illegals into jail and see how quickly they self deport.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:27 AM
N0, it is reality. Do you ever see it going another way?
By Phadreus1340 (144), Southampton on Aug 3, 12 9:44 AM
Yeah, let's just throw up our hands an give up. Amnesty for all, that should stop the next wave!!!!
By dnice (2346), Hampton Bays on Aug 11, 12 9:33 PM
Before you all get crazy I have to add this ..... Do you know that the illegal now legal immigrant do file taxes , yes that right they do. They also claim everyone in there family. Not just the ones here in the US either they clam their entire family living in well where ever they are from. They get back 10's of thousands of dollars
only paying in about 5k or so but their tax return are close to 20k a year... Its also funny hey the US govt dont even look into it. But us a US citizens you better ...more
By tookatz (83), westhampton beach on Aug 1, 12 10:45 PM
2 members liked this comment
How do you know? Where do you get your facts? I would llike to see in writing the tax forms you seem to know so much about. are you the legal cpa that helped those people fill out the forms?
By summertime (589), summerfield fl on Aug 4, 12 5:36 PM
OK that's the solution for what? and to whom? I still have to pay over $100.00 in college for my american son, and another one will be starting next year...what about fixing the student loans scams first and then we can move on to the rest.
By YXZ (32), Hampton Bays on Aug 2, 12 12:19 AM
While I do think there has to be some "solution" - and don't agree at all with this "back door" one - I love the fact the editor chose to say MS., not Mr., progressnow, "emigrated here", instead of "was brought here by her parents". I'm sorry - can't have it both ways. I think we should welcome smart, hard-working, competitave students - it's done all the time - sometimes legally.
By Board Watcher (534), East Hampton on Aug 2, 12 1:26 AM
Hey, boredwatcher, how does a 2 year old child "emigrate"? She was freaking brought here by her parents
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Aug 2, 12 10:10 AM
1 member liked this comment
How many of the worlds children do you think we can educate before the country goes into a bankruptcy?
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:28 AM
2 members liked this comment
That is right the more educate you are the better is for your country.....ignorant people ruin society.
By Bel (86), southampton on Aug 3, 12 8:46 PM
That's what I said, genious. It was the editor of this article that used that term ... speciously in my opinion.
By Board Watcher (534), East Hampton on Aug 4, 12 11:10 AM
That was in reply to witch hazel
By Board Watcher (534), East Hampton on Aug 4, 12 11:12 AM
There you have it, America needs to pay for the education of all the worlds children.

At what cost?
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 9, 12 8:49 PM
The problem is NOT with immigrants; it is with ILLEGAL immigrants. Obama must be stopped.
By AFB (31), NYC/SH on Aug 2, 12 9:28 AM
Illegal immigrants cost us 700 billion a year and you cant do anything about it.We do nothing because we have become a country of handouts and lazy overweight losers.
By chief1 (2800), southampton on Aug 2, 12 10:01 AM
1 member liked this comment
Total bs. Immigration, illegal or otherwise, is a net PLUS to the American economy.


By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Aug 2, 12 10:10 AM
Really? So at the median rate $20,000 per year/per student for an education in Suffolk County, that's $360,000 to educate each student from grades 1-18.

Please explain how an illegal immigrant family is a "net benefit" under those circumstance. You're the one full of crap.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:30 AM
that should have read grades 1-12, at a cost of $240,000 per student.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 2, 12 11:31 AM
k-12 but hey, third time is a charm right?

I don't understand why people think that illegal immagrants pay NO taxes and send their kids to school for free. When illegal immigrants rent a home/apartment (and I'm not talking about overcrowded, 25-30 people in one home), that homeowner pays taxes which go to the school district, and that homeowner gets the money for taxes from their "illegal" tennants. How is it any different from an "american" family renting a home and sending their kids ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 2, 12 11:37 AM
2 members liked this comment
because the illegals crowd into single family homes...meant for say 3 children. Those taxes would be fair to send 3 kids to school, however if you crowd several families in a home with say....10 kids...That tax bill comes no where close to the bill for their education. Get it???
By squeaky (291), hampton bays on Aug 2, 12 2:15 PM
That's why I specfically said "I'm not talking about overcroweded 25-30 people in a home". I was referring to illegal immigrants who occupy legal apartments or homes.

There are so many valid arguements to make against illegal immigration, and I can see both sides of it, but I can't stand it when people group every single illegal immigrant into the same category. Yes, some homes are overcrowded and essentially don't pay a fair tax toward the school district for the number of children ...more
Aug 2, 12 2:27 PM appended by Nature
**spanish speaking countries.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 2, 12 2:27 PM
1 member liked this comment
Not all but a majority do live in overcrowded homes. How can a group of people making low wages possibly afford to rent a house? They work a few months a year....The employers are employing slaves essentially. You rarely see Russian or Polish immigrants living in converted hotels...8 to 10 in a room. Yes there are others who are here illegally but we are talking the majority here.
Are the ones you know, who overstayed their visas living in those conditions??? Continuing to have babies they ...more
By squeaky (291), hampton bays on Aug 2, 12 4:22 PM
1 member liked this comment
Hampton Bays is projected to have 60% Hispanic children in kindergarten this year. I used to love Hampton Bays but I'm happy not to live there anymore.What are they going to do with the 3 illegal motels? One was housing 80 people instead of 40 with 40 school age children when Code enforcement inspected.In the 3 motels over 200 violations were reported.
By TianaBob (256), S.Jamesport on Aug 4, 12 8:11 AM
Witch Hazel, you have just jumped the shark with that BS.
By dnice (2346), Hampton Bays on Aug 11, 12 9:18 PM
This is what happens with the Rule of Law is thrown out and those that are
breaking the laws of USA will continue to receive taxpayer funded programs
including College and our children will continue to pay for their education
with no aid from Pres. OF USA!!! Question: What is the classification
American Citizen mean? Follow the laws and help those that break the
law! I don't know about you and yours thoughts are -- I am outraged and disappointed with our leadership!!! We ...more
By East Ender (64), Southampton on Aug 2, 12 12:23 PM
East Ender, you and reality first would make a great couple, you could study for your GED's together.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Aug 2, 12 1:32 PM
Illegal, illegal and illegal no matter how you slice it,they are here illegally. I have zero issued with people coming here legally but why do I have to pay the full cost of my own kids to go to college and subsidize someone else's who are here illegally. Stop bleeding for every poor sob story. Come here legally pay taxes and then you may enjoy the benefits that accrue to people that are supported but working people's taxes. WHY do I have to support people on welfare and illegal aliens by working ...more
By maxwell (169), speonk on Aug 2, 12 2:06 PM
1 member liked this comment
For all of you freaking out about how illegal is illegal is illegal and that they souldn't be given any amnesty etc. - can we please look at what this story is about? This girl was brought her by her parents when she was 2 years old. She clearly had no choice/say in the matter.

Do you HONESTLY expect that when she turns 18 she will say, "my bad guys, I'm going to go back where I came from..." ? I mean, really. This program is not intended to allow every single illegal immigrant stay ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 2, 12 2:35 PM
3 members liked this comment
You nailed it, nature. Just have a look at the number of men attacking a young girl. Pathetic cowards.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 2, 12 2:58 PM
You cannot blame the child for her parents. However, it is unfortunate that her parents chose to become criminals in order to provide her a better future.

HOWEVER, I do not condone ANY illegal activity... EVER. Laws are made for a reason, and if they are broken then there must be a penalty paid. Bottom line.
By HBPatriot (19), Hampton Bays on Aug 2, 12 4:36 PM
Wow Witch, you missed the entire point , no surprise there. The younf woman in question has parents who ILLEGALLY ENTERED THE COUNTRY. That's the fact of the situation. As to your personal, off topic comments, just more ignorant claptrap from a member of the lunatic left wing fringe, carry on Komrade, carry on.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 2, 12 5:15 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Aug 2, 12 6:10 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Aug 3, 12 4:21 PM
Hey, 27east, you allow bigidiot to call people "lunatic, left wing, komrades" but you remove Mary Beth's comment calling him a racist? Which he clearly is? What's the matter, right wingers, you shoot your mouths of like a bunch of 3rd grade brats and then you cry when someone calls you on it? Typical teabaggery.
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Aug 5, 12 11:51 AM
2 members liked this comment
The radical racist homophobic right despises anyone who is not a born again, white, NRA, John Birch supporter.

But their time has passed. They are done. Obama will be reelected and The Tea Party will just be a bad dream, a burp in American Democracy.
By Steven (113), Westhampton on Aug 2, 12 10:30 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 3, 12 6:43 AM
We can't afford illegals anymore thats the reality 700 billion a year we don't have. No one can explain how we afford this.
By chief1 (2800), southampton on Aug 3, 12 10:23 AM
Apparently nature can't read and comprehend too well. It's not about one individual it's about the situation in general. Why do i have to support and pay for services and an education for someone who is here illegally and at the same time pay for my own kids to go to college. It's not about one seventeen year old girl. I have compassion so using some of the reasoning here we should allow everyone who wants to come here, come. Then we will be paying for services an educating 10 million or 50 million ...more
By maxwell (169), speonk on Aug 3, 12 2:19 PM
1 member liked this comment
Maxwell,

I read the article and have an understanding of the law, which does not give blanket citizenship to everyone and everyone.

I ask you again, what should Angelica Uribe do? If she was in front of you, what would you tell her?
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Aug 3, 12 2:30 PM
Get your facts straight witch hazel
Illegal aliens cost this country billions and billions of dollars every year
If your using them for your own financial gain then you're a criminal too
Your just another brain dead sheep like dagdavid,progress now. and the rest of the clowns who will stop at nothing to slum up the neighborhoods for future generations

And save the tea bag comments,i have been a registered democrat for over 20 years,but tired of the spineless weaselness that ...more
By Kaiser Sozay (31), east end on Aug 4, 12 9:14 AM
Every time someone throws out a logical reason why illegal immigrants are bankrupting us, half you people yell racist. It is not about racism at all. By all means, come to this country, work to get ahead, pay taxes, spend money , and stimulate the local economy. But don't cause me to pay more than my fair share by cramming 30 people into a house, walking out on hospital bills, sending all the cash you make back to your country , driving without a license and insurance and any responsibility, etc. ...more
By bubby (236), southampton on Aug 4, 12 1:58 PM
2 members liked this comment
Illegal is illegal is illegal is illegal, get it??!!
The young woman in question hax parents who are criminals who broke the law by coming here illegally. Since she had no say when she too broke the law by coming here illegally, in this particular case, le her stay. The parents should be deported. Obey the law, what's so hard about that?
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 4, 12 4:44 PM
And a bully racist is a bully racist.
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Aug 5, 12 11:52 AM
Again, instead of just calling someone a racist, explain why. They broke the law, even you must see that, so you have no logical thing to say so you just cry racism.
By bubby (236), southampton on Aug 5, 12 12:29 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Aug 5, 12 12:52 PM
2 members liked this comment
Apologies. I was just going on the post above her response.
By bubby (236), southampton on Aug 5, 12 4:26 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By kpjc (161), east quogue on Aug 5, 12 9:15 PM
Strictly a political move. No problem to give amnesty, however, there must be a price paid, their parents should receive a fine and penalty and show where their tax free income is coming from, so it can be taxed. NO FREE RIDES!!
By kpjc (161), east quogue on Aug 5, 12 9:15 PM
Well I have read all the comments and I ask all of you one simple question. Don't you all see that our current immigration system is flawed especially since we see a case here where a family has been here for 15 YEARS and no path to legalization, newsflash to all if the whole family is here including young kids 1) they are not sending money back to their countries and 2) most likely not living with 25 other people. The ones that live that way are the ones here alone not the ones with the families.
Most ...more
By HBresident (24), Hampton Bays on Aug 5, 12 9:44 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 6, 12 8:24 AM
It is a derogatory term of racism, plain and simple and it says a lot about who you are, no matter what excuses you make.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Aug 6, 12 9:06 AM
I am a homeowner with a house listed for rent. I must say my phone is ringing off the hook with people barely speaking English to say they need a place for their wives and kids who are on their way here. It's like a green light was turned on. It people would stop renting to them we would have less of a problem.
By Q333 (161), Southampton on Aug 6, 12 8:34 AM
Every time an illegal immigrant goes into a store and buys something they pay taxes. Republican and Democratic lawmakers want no part of this hot potato. I will tell you this, America has always found a home for people willing to work hard, legal or illegal.
By Mets fan (1501), Southampton on Aug 6, 12 12:03 PM
2 members liked this comment
Sales taxes are miniscule compared to the myriad of taxes legal residents are forced to pay.

Sounds like you believe there should be no border. If there's no enforcement, what's the point?
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Aug 6, 12 8:39 PM
1 member liked this comment
Sales tax is paid by anyone making a purchase, true. Only people here LEGALLY with a Legitimate SS # are payng state income tax, federal income tax and unemployment tax. Using social services that the user hasn't paid for is a problem, don'tcha think?
Some jobs aren't high paying, that's the nature of capitalism, a foriegn concept for some here.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 6, 12 6:27 PM
That also applies to the businesses who hire them. those businesses are not paying the taxes required if they hired a person with a SS#. Again...When are you right wingers going to come to grips with the fact that businesses are greatly benefitting from the cheap labor and tax evasion.
When one of those day laborers gets injured on the job the business owner droppes him off at the hospital and we pick up the tab.
By SHNative (554), Southampton on Aug 6, 12 10:02 PM
Once again, bigfresh, you are wrong. Many undocumented workers have a taxpayer id which works just like a ss # and requires the workers and employers to pay taxes. Any sane economist will tell you that undocumented workers have contributed billions of dollars to social security, basically helping keep it solvent for years to come even though they will never be able to use those benefits themselves. You are simply wrong on this issue on so many levels.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Aug 7, 12 9:17 AM
Sure SH native blame the employer. The illegals all give false ss numbers and how would an employer know? How about the feds take the blame and stop letting people cross the border? Or better yet stop policies like this that let illegals know crossing will not get them deported. Another ignorant comment " blame the rightwingers" How about you blame your president he made the law if you even read the article.
By chief1 (2800), southampton on Aug 6, 12 10:37 PM
1 member liked this comment
The employer can and should use a properly executed I-9 form.
By VOS (1241), WHB on Aug 6, 12 11:55 PM
chief.....Yes "blame the employer!"
If we do mot hire them...they will go home with no cost to the taxpayer, and we would not turn into a police state in the process.
BTW-What have the Republicans done with this issue....besides blaming the Dems and getting votes for doing nothing???
By SHNative (554), Southampton on Aug 7, 12 8:44 AM
Let me answer that SHnative - they've done nothing. In fact, it is the republican party under pressure from big agricultural corporations who demand cheap labor that do not want to do anything.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Aug 7, 12 9:19 AM
What if this girl was 5 would you all say she can stay and the parents go. You can not judge each individual situation because nothing would ever get done. Simple obey the laws on the books, if you don't like the laws elect people who will change them. I'm not aracist, I simple don't want to pay the way for people who don't pay taxes SS etc. It's not a republican or democratic thing, it's a cost issue. I should not nor do I want to support every illegal who comes to this country. I'm paying for ...more
By maxwell (169), speonk on Aug 7, 12 1:48 PM
You have NEVER come close to ascribing culpability to the Republicans as you do the Democrats. In fact, the best you have done is to tacitly admit the "both parties are to blame". You and the other right-wingers are far more comfortable placing blame on the Democrats.
I would like you and the others on the right, to hold the Republican" feet to the fire" like you do that of the Democrats. Where does the outsourcer fall on this subject? How about Romney? Let's hear what the Republican want to ...more
By SHNative (554), Southampton on Aug 8, 12 12:36 PM
I heard a really bad rumor today.

Word has it a local contractor has dismissed most of his craftsmen, to employ lesst experienced help at roughly half the price.

If this actually is true, well...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 9, 12 9:03 PM
Not true
By EastEnd68 (888), Westhampton on Aug 9, 12 9:22 PM
The numbers from the IRS SOI study have been crunched, computed, and the results look quite incontrovertible. The topmost "earners" in our society quadurupled their INCOME in the last thirty years (.01% @23.8M avg.). The next tier (.1%) tripled their income, the top 1% has doubled theirs, and 90% of the country have LOST 4.8% of their income. That's right, the average income for 90% of this country FELL in the last thirty years. That's in "real dollars", adjusted for inflation (1980-2010). Heck, ...more
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 11, 12 1:31 PM
Because you say so, huh? Let's just split it up amongst the lazy and unmotivated. If we have a problem it's that people have gotten lazier and expect more for less.
By dnice (2346), Hampton Bays on Aug 11, 12 9:23 PM
The rich have earned their money and are entitled to shelter it , legally. May the rich get richer, a few more billionaire clients and I can get a bigger boat and that vacation property I've had my eye on.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 11, 12 1:39 PM
Not really.

The Treasury printed 5 quadrillion dollars in the last decade, and they had the position and power to take whatever they felt entitled to. They CREATE the sociological "problems" they so magnanimously create charities for, and donate to with their conduct.

Earning, and taking are two different things. Oligarchy is not Democracy, and I pity you for your ignorance and decrepit level of intellect and education as much as any human with intellect and a heart can.
Aug 11, 12 1:47 PM appended by Mr. Z
And obviously, in case you missed it, "trickle down" economics DOESN'T WORK. If it did, those numbers would not exist.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 11, 12 1:47 PM
“Before our white brothers came to civilize us we had no jails. Therefore we had no criminals. You can't have criminals without a jail. We had no locks or keys, and so we had no thieves. If a man was so poor that he had no horse, tipi or blanket, someone gave him these things. We were too uncivilized to set much value on personal belongings. We wanted to have things only in order to give them away. We had no money, and therefore a man's worth couldn't be measured by it. We had no written law, ...more
Aug 11, 12 2:23 PM appended by Mr. Z
"Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men, we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents. Without a prison, there can be no delinquents. We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves. When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket, he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift. We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property. We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being was not determined by his wealth. We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians, therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another. We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society."
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 11, 12 2:23 PM
1 member liked this comment
I want some of whatever you are on tonight.
By dnice (2346), Hampton Bays on Aug 11, 12 9:24 PM
Here you go:

In quick order, the legacy of 1776 started “belonging” to the anti-“Big Government” Tea Party crowd. The Founders, claimed Tea Party types, wouldn’t abide government interference in their lives. And neither should we. If we today just stayed true to 1776, the United States would remain forever “exceptional.”

And how do we stay true? The Tea Party — and like-minded GOP leaders in Congress — had a ready answer. No ...more
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 13, 12 8:26 PM