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Tempers flared at Town Hall Friday afternoon after the deputy supervisor confronted the head of the Southampton Patrolman Benevolent Association following a discussion of Supervisor Linda Kabot’s proposed $78.8 million budget.
Apparently angered over comments made during the special meeting by Southampton PBA President Patrick Aubé, who criticized the proposed spending plan that includes 48 layoffs, Deputy Supervisor Bill Jones stopped Mr. Aubé in the hallway and, at one point, shoved him in front of several witnesses.
As tempers continued to flare, Mr. Aubé said that he was physically pushed by Mr. Jones. PBA Vice President Kevin Gwinn came to Mr. Aubé’s aid and tried to separate the two men.
“I’ll lock him up,” Mr. Aubé said to Mr. Gwinn, before stating to Mr. Jones, “You are going to jail.”
While trying to calm him, Mr. Gwinn warned Mr. Jones that he was being “physically aggressive.”
Apparently unfazed by the warning, Mr. Jones shouted “get your hand off me!” and proceeded to blast both men for opposing the supervisor’s budget.
“I am infuriated at the BS that we had to listen to,” Mr. Jones said. “You don’t know what you’re talking about! I know this budget inside and out.”
After hearing the shouting, Ms. Kabot exited the Town Board workroom and rushed into the fray, and asked Mr. Jones to stop. “This is the end of the conversation,” Ms. Kabot said.
Speaking at the special meeting, Mr. Aubé stated that he opposed the layoffs and proposals that veteran police officers forgo longevity pay. Mr. Aubé said the 48 layoffs proposed in the budget would cause the “destruction of families” and that town officials should instead offer employees reduced work schedules with adjustments in pay.
“I urge the Town Board to oppose your proposed budget,” Mr. Aubé said.
But once he left the room, Mr. Aubé was confronted in the hallway by Mr. Jones, who is also the town’s director of human services—a department that faces four layoffs—and the shouting began.
Later, Ms. Kabot said she was “embarrassed” by the spat. She said she needed time to consider whether any disciplinary action was warranted against Mr. Jones.
When reached later, Mr. Aubé said he was not pressing any charges against Mr. Jones.
Ms. Kabot noted that town officials have worked long hours and “burned the midnight oil” this week to compile the budget by the September 30 midnight deadline, as required by state law.
“Tempers are very, very high. A lot of emotions are raw right now,” Ms. Kabot said. “For [the budget] to be described as ‘smoke and mirrors’ when we knew this is open, honest and transparent is upsetting.”
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And public posturing is always part of that representation.
What it comes down to after all the "He said/I was there" stuff, is should the Southampton Town Police Department be exempt from the economic hardships the rest of us are having to deal with?
Jones was shouting but never shoved anyone.
That earlier article was on a separate subject (See Residents Outraged Over Proposed Windmill Plan at http://www.27east.com/story_detail.cfm?id=236461) regarding neighbors' opposition to construction of a wind turbine in Shinnecock Hills by a resident there who also owns a wind turbine company in Flanders. Interestingly, the neighborhood opposition is led by Charles ...more Schwartz, head of a non-profit called LI Green. Finlayson's article states that Schwartz's opposition is based on a supposed threat to wetlands, and goes on to state that it's consistent with LI Green's mission.
Problem is, it's not consistent with LI Green's mission, which is clearly stated on its web site. In a nutshell, LI Green's mission is to promote Long Island's green businesses - like the wind turbine business in Flanders. Schwartz's opposition to the turbine is totally INCONSISTENT with LI Green's mission.
The point of all this is to say that Finlayson apparently didn't bother to simply go to LI Green's web site to check out what its mission is. If he had, he could have confronted Schwartz about the inconsistency (in my opinion, hypocracy) in his positions. Instead, the article was misleading due to a lack of fact-checking.
I wonder if he relied on Schwartz to tell him what LI Green's mission is, and if the same thing happened here - taking someone's word for what's fact. If so, it's a bad practice, particularly when you're relying on someone with an interest in the outcome.
It was Gwinn who said smoke & mirrors
Jones never pushed through reporters to get to Aube, in fact Jones was talking to one of the reporter prior to talking with Aube & Gwinn. He did not seek out
the 2 police officers.
Aube & Gwinn were grandstanding with the statements made, because of the dislike for Kabot. Jones did nothing wrong.
Nice try Linda. Down the hatch.
You say you were there, did you see Jones shove anyone?
What kind of name is rocky for a female?
You are so off base with the Linda thing.
you have no idea what you are talking about. Jones was standing with his back up against the wall in the corner of the hall. No way he blocked anyone from leaving. You are lying.
Both he and Aube went to this meeting to put down this budget because they want Ms. Throne-Holst to win in November. They endorced her for supervisor, thats why they showed up for this meeting. What time did they use, they were there as PBA representatives.
If Jones had really shoved Aube you better believe he would have been arrested.
Should Throne-Holst win in November what will she owe them? What will she have to ...more give back. The sh town police will be untouchable, we as tax payers will see the biggest out of control budget with her as supervisor.
Thats the goal. I can't believe that some people can't see through this scam.
What a different story.
Sorry but he did not even poke Aube.
With proposed layoffs of 48 employees over several departments and tensions running high, the deputy Southampton Town supervisor, William Jones, and Patrick Aube, the town's Policeman Benevolent Association's president, had an angry face-to-face confrontation outside the town board meeting room on Friday.
Mr. Jones, who according to a witness poked ...more Mr. Aube in the shoulder while making a point in an argument, was defending Supervisor Linda Kabot's budget, which Mr. Aube had just publicly criticized as a result of bad management and a "scheme that puts the tax burden on taxpayers in 2011."
Let's get back to the heart of the matter. The town is proposing lay-offs!!!
What our community doesn't need or anyone else in this country is any more lay-offs! Around our Country many government agencies have come up with better alternatives like shorter work weeks until the economy turns around. The Boards ego shouldn't be bruised because the public disagreea with them.
This incident would be noteworthy if it were unique. The truth is that Officers Aubé and Gwinn epitomize the entire STPD. They are so accustomed to using their arrest powers without troubling about justification that they threatened the second highest elected town official with false arrest in town hall itself! Sadly, had this incident occurred in the usual venue of their activity, an isolated traffic stop, Mr. Jones WOULD be in jail.
We need to reestablish ...more in our police officers a constant consciousness of the narrow and unambiguous circumstances in which their power to arrest may be exercised legally. It is not a lever to raise dubious incidents to criminal acts, and it is certainly not a tool to assuage upset egos.
This was a fortunate encounter, however disagreeable. The lack of self control and the abuse of their authority by the officers in question was witnessed by many. Perhaps now the Town Council will seriously look into complaints of police transgressions.
Who knows if these 2 guys even live here. This is not only about who they are voting for, this is about getting everything they want when it come's to negotiating the police contract. Throne-Holst will owe them she is for sale.
They showed up for throne-holst because they endorced her for supervisor.
As I undersant this these layoffs are not written in stone. Other alternatives could be brought to the table.
Does this town need a police dept? Maybe not it may be cheaper ...more to have SC police cover the east end. Someone would have to do a study to see if that would be the way to go.
Jones did not chase anyone out into the hall. Read the story. But read all the paper's this article in not accurate no one did any shoving.
Stella: It would be far more exspensive for SCPD to cover the East End. Don't try to disband the SHTPD because you disagree with the PBA's chocie for supervisor.
No one like's the idea of layoffs especially in this economy. Like I stated above
I don't think this budget as presented is written in stone it still has to vetted out by the entire town board.
Yeah we stare at the beautiful women
"She's perfect for you, Man, there's got to be somebody for me."
I want to be Bob Dylan
Mr. Jones wishes he was someone just a little more funky
When everybody loves you, son, that's just about as funky as you can be
I'm not looking to disband the SH police, I was answering Stella on the no Police in our town question.
You came into the conversation a little late and are confused on who's who.
in your world would you like your neighbors laid off & no police in our towns.
You questioned the need for our police & maybe replacing them & seemed to be behind the Board on lay-offs. We do Need our police dep't & nobody needs to lose their jobs( this is what the meeting was about- lay-offs for town employee's). Don't try & twist peoples words!
.
http://www.town.southampton.ny.us/listing.ihtml?myid=2322&id=70&cat=Police%20Department
Bill Jones is NOT the "second highest elected official in out town" He was not elected to anything he was appointed.Now it is obvious you have police issues based on this and other posts to this board. Let me save you time and trouble. Police powers are given via the state, not the town. Neither your girl Linda, Bill Jones or anyone can "clip the wings" of law enforcement as you so wish.
Can you imagine a world where someone like Linda or Bill can designate which laws local poice ...more can and sghould enforce?
Please note highhat, that no arrest was made nor were charges filed against Mr Jones. So much for police abuse of power as you so feebly attempt to claim.
The highest percent of your tax bill is the volunteer fire depts and your school tax, not the police tax. You shouldnt compare the leaf pick-up with public safety. According to you your lawn is more important to you than the safety of our familys inside of our homes. All our services are well worth what we pay, By the way is the lowest tax rate on Long Island.You pay more per year for t.v cable/satllte service than you do for police services and Hwy Dept services.
And how is it that EVERY single post you make is a negative reference to ATH?
Isn't anonymity great?
Of course we need a police force upholding the law in sh town.
My point is that these 2 police officer’s are using the presentation of the budget (and able to speak at this meeting) as a political platform for the candidate they endorsed for supervisor. They could care less about town employees. As the budget stands right now in addition to layoffs the town employees will not be getting any raises for 2010. The PBA is in the process of negotiating the contract for the police ...more dept. This was copied from another local paper in sh.
The town is in arbitration with the police union, which is seeking a 4.5-percent raise and which rejected a 2.5-percent raise the town offered to its members. The compensation for many police officers tops $100,000 per year, 30 percent or more of the town's budget goes to its police force.
If Aube and Gwinn are so concerned with the welfare of town employees why don’t they forgo the raise this year.
The PBA is endorsing Throne-Holst for supervisor and the reason given by Officer Aube was that she was against retiring of any police officers in 2008. The law in sh is that after 20 years it is up to the option of the town board to retire a police officer. (deficit in the police dept is $4.5 million)
New police officers could have hired, the idea was not to reduce the force.
At that meeting Gwinn being upset about the retirement law, told Kabot she is a one term supervisor. Could Throne-Holst ever try to up hold the law’s of this town? No, the police endorsement is too important.
With this endorsement the PBA owns her, she is for sale. She is not doing what she was elected to do. By the way she is also endorsed by the CSEA (sh town union). Everyone like’s to have endorsement it look great on your campaign literature. However how can you do the work of the people if special interest groups are your priority?
Go to the town web site and click on the rolling banner, you will be able to see the salaries of the town police dept. Voters need to informed.
Again, this budget still has to be discussed with the town board and recommendation will be made by all.
* huge budget gap with Keystone Kop accountants and no resolution in sight
* DWI bust for the elected town leader who is supposed to be a role model
* Physical altercation involving the supervisor's appointed deputy
* Etc etc.
Regardless of whether you think the whole thing was a setup, you have to admit that there's a disturbing pattern of really poor behavior, lack of integrity, ...more and flat-out mismanagement.
Why in the world would anyone want this kind of leadership?
Yes they are town employees but the PBA union is a different union then the CSEA. My point (that you chose to miss) was that if Aube and Gwinn are so concerned for the town employees being on a layoff list. Why are they negotiating a raise for the police force. If they were really concerned with the welfare of those on the layoff list the PBA could freeze the current salaries of the police and maybe save some jobs.
I never said that ...more the deficit was the fault of the police dept. What I said was that the person that the PBA is endorsing for supervisor knew about the deficit and would not vote to retire any police. The president of the PBA endorsed her was for that very reason.
I never tried to hide the fact that I am NOT partial, I am voting for Kabot because she cannot be bought by any union or special interest groups.
No matter how you try to spin this, my facts are straight, its you trying to twist my words.
The flanders center & court project are over budget. OK happy now.
'the thing that is disturbing is that you are disturbed. Do you have any real comments to contribute instead of some talking points you gather along the way.
To Terry:
I don't have, "issues", with the police department. I believe, specifically, that police officers routinely abuse their arrest powers when they pull over motorists for suspicion of DUI without probable cause. Officer Aubés threat to arrest Bill Jones without cause exemplifies their attitude.
I do not believe that requiring STPD officers to obey the law themselves would be, "clipping their wings".
As clarification, I have but one, "issue", with the police department, that issue being that their obsession with booking DUI busts has caused them, as standard procedure, to pull over motorists who manifest no signs of drunkenness, relying on a breathalyzer test to validate at least a portion their arrests. As a result of their habitual arbitrary exercise of the arrest power in DUI busts, they now rely on self-assertion ...more rather than objective evidence in other circumstances when it suits them, and have become truculent generally in their interactions with citizens.
Officer Aubé's behavior at town hall exemplifies this attitude perfectly.
That this is your belief is clear as you have reiterated it ad nauseum throughout your comments. However, as you have not made any principled argument in support of your belief, your allegation is baseless. Casting aspersions upon the police does not make your case.
I honestly have no idea who's telling the truth on this one and I don't care The fact is that our leaders and their chosen deputies are doing things like driving drunk and then having physical confrontations (perceived or real) with their opponents.
I think ...more most of us would find that a little disturbing. If you don't then I feel sorry for you. Has nothing to do with politics.
Officer Aube's "threat" was AFTER MR Jones poked him in the chest. A lesser person would have knocked My Jones down. Officer Aube' merely advised Mr Jones that continued behavior like that could result in an arrest.
I agree with bonac, it is out of character for Mr Jones to behave like that. That does not mean he didn't do it.
Seeing that Officer Aubé came within a hair of arresting Bill Jones, one can only ask what led him to believe, even if but for an instant, that it was proper to do so and that the arrest would withstand legal scrutiny. Could it be that this behavior replicates his behavior in traffic stops where no crowd of onlookers is witness?
FYI when you name call you sound like Aube and ...more it completely diminishes anything you say after that.
$200,000 or $2 million in concessions?
and now they want 12 hour tours so they can show up for work less frequently?
You guys do OK - you do a good job and are paid accordingly.
At least with either furloughs, payroll lag or wage deferrals people - yes your members - get to keep their jobs - and benefits - New York City went through this in the 1970's - the unions balked - and Mayor Beame laid off thousands - including cops.
We do have a very good police force in the Town of Southampton. I admire your loyalty to your friends and the code of silence that bond you. I’m sure they may be very good police officer’s and do the job they were hired to do.
However the display of behavior shown on Friday and in the past is very different from the 2 officers you are describing.
I took the time as you suggested and looked at my tax bill. The police budget is the second highest priced item represented ...more and almost twice the price of the Fire District and Ambulance combined.
As far as Mr. Jones, you are stating an opinion that he needs anger management based on what you were told or what you heard. Is that a fair statement to make?
The aggressive comments you have made in the past regarding the dwi arrest of the supervisor were not very fair or accurate.
Copied and pasted from one of your blogs Officer Middleman
THE ARREST IS ON VIDEO. “She can say anything she wants, the video has already been sent to the DA's office. Video tells it all. Can't understand how she plans to plead not guilty with a daming video as it ts."
A person no matter who they are: innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
The previous administration covered this deficit by drawing cash from the general fund but did not reduce the fund balance giving the ...more public and lenders the erroneous idea that the balance was much higher than it was. That's falsification of financial statements.
Make no mistake - the Police Dept overspent by $4.5 Million, all their fault. The apparent falsification of the Town's financial statements, omitting the funds they took to cover the Police Fund's deficit spending to show a better financial picture was the Town's fault. But the Police deficits were real, due to out of control compensation, regardless of whether they had the moey or not.
All this will come out shortly after the conclusion of the NY Attorney General's audit of Southampton's books.
Could you post a link to the videos that you mention. I can't find them on the town's website. Thanks.
If you think those statements were bad try watching the tb meeting of August 26, 2008 where this officer told Kabot in a heated speech how her term as supervisor would be short. The disrespectful behavior childish.
As for police salary's our cops are worth every penny. Many of you commenting on salary's are the first ones to call 911 when your neighbor's dog is barking for more than 3 ...more minutes straight. Go to radio shack and buy a scanner and you can listen to police calls all night long. Just remember in January when it is 2* out and you are home in your warm bed that Southampton Town PD is out being a social worker,first responder,marriage counselor etc.
But more likely he would be charged with harassment. If he did in fact shove him. I don't know how much closer you could get to the definition of harassment than what allegedly happened. Aube would have been well within his rights to arrest him. Prudent thing to do? Probably not. But shoving somebody you know to be a police officer is.. well.. not smart.
As an aside, I don't know how there can be question whether or not he shoved him or "finger poked" him, ...more or did nothing to him. Thank goodness for the video, at least we can confirm they were both in the building!
they should not be a political entity, do your job, you will be well compensated for it.
Stay out of politics.
Thanks for the information that town council meetings are available on the town website. I took a look at the August 26, 2008 video and it was a revelation.
Officers Aubé and Gwinn were again in attendance, this time protesting a suggestion by the Supervisor that, for budgetary reasons, the town consider not continuing the employment of cops who have served twenty years. (The terms of a cop’s contract are that they retire after twenty years but the town MAY continue ...more their employment thereafter if it so wishes.)
According to Officer Aubé who was first to speak, the town CANNOT decline to continue cops employment because there is a state law that forbids governments from diminishing employees’ pensions .(?) (Yes, its complete poo, but he said it.)
Following was his sidekick, Gwinn, in full regalia, (badge & bars), and backed by two like uniformed cops, who castigated Supervisor Kabot for her lousy management skills, ending with the line about her having a, “short”, career as Supervisor. As he left the podium, the cops behind him applauded vigorously, joined loudly by the uniformed cops who had packed the audience. (That this was the case was made apparent by a speaker from the Southampton Business Alliance who had remarked earlier on how safe she felt in the room that night; that it must be all the, "Blue".) Supervisor Kabot asked the audience to curtail their applause to preserve the decorum of the room. At this, Officer Gwinn TOOK BACK THE MICROPHONE and criticized her for her request.
Such disrespect by a cop to an elected official that employs him is outrageous!
These cops have shown that they are at ease both in providing disinformation and in being offensive, traits that correlate inversely with good policing.
It is up to the reader to decide the propriety of uniformed cops appearing en mass at a town council meeting where their continued employment in under discussion. However, I can think of a few historical legislative assemblies whose decisions were coerced by the intimidation of uniformed attendees.
The police were out of control at this meeting (8/26/08). They could care less about the employees under the CSEA union. They were just grandstanding at this meeting on Friday and they used it for a political platform for Throne-Holst.
The police union endorsed Throne-Holst for supervisor. Should she win in November, could see enforce the law of the town of sh? The law states that at the option of the tb police office's must retire after 20 years. The answer ...more is NO. She own's them, she will never be able to do the work of the people.
You may remember ATH was all for granting some police officers full retirement benefits when they realized they could not squeeze in 20 years before retirement. It was a free gift to the union - it should have been addressed in collective bargaining and the union should have had to pay for it.
Brendan O'Reilly
27east Web Editor
It's about lay-offs to fellow neighbors-the police were not involved in this talk. 2 members from the police dep't were there to back other town employees.
Eyewitness & eastend68 (with all their commets to the press in the last few months) are obviously politically connected!!!
I
The 2 police office's used the supervisors presentation of the budget as a political platform in an effort to promote the candicate they are endorsing for supervisor. They were insulting, stating that she failed the people and the budget was all smoke and mirrors. What don't you get.
Its gone to the police dept because they dont care about the CSEA employees all they care about is getting the candicate they endorsed for supervisor elected. Also, what comments in the last few months, ...more my comments are regarding this article. I keep bringing this back to the police because its these 2 guys that started this storm.
Who would remember meeting? I'll tell you an informed voter that's who.
You, as a voter need to educate yourself on the issue's in your town.
You get it?
Contrast these figures with Officer Gwinn's melodramatic claim that the Supervisor's budget cuts would, "destroy families". If anyone destroys officers' families it will be their fellow officers who refuse to accept a modest reduction in their extraordinary compensation rather than have some of the lowest rankers terminated.
Is correct the town web site is an informational tool to keep residents in the loop of what going on in town. The entire budget is posted.
Stella
For your information all the town board meetings are on the town clerk portal as mentioned by another blogger above. Here you can do a search and find video's of any town board meeting of interest to you.
Let's remember to thank all the lovely rich people who brought us this mess, by driving up the cost of everything, and usurping the town for their own excess.
Quit fighting amongst ourselves, and maybe put up a fight against the disparity that has been created.
That's my two cents...
I really liked the full explanation of the name Rocky. I remember seeing her and Gary and Maria on Jobs Lane in the summer.
Lets really get to the bottom of this slime once and for all-Linda made public her source of info-how about Throne-holst?
The Town can no longer ...more afford this largesse. Were these officers retired, many of the other town employees scheduled for the axe, who did NOT sign contracts with a term limit, could be retained.
Having said this, I do think the police union is overstepping boundaries with their endorsement of ATH and their behavoir does come across as somewhat bullying to me with both the incident re this article and with the town hall meetings on the vids.
The brouhaha at the August 26, 2008 Town Council Meeting, where cops appeared en mass in uniform, occurred because Linda Kabot dared to suggest that six of the supra-contractual cops should be retired. The Chief had recommended these six for retirement of all the cops who have worked beyond the twenty year maximum. Since it is the ...more chief who decides who stays on beyond twenty years, one can assume that he thought that theses six, while initially worthy or continued employment, no longer merited the exception.
The high salaries of cops, per se, is not in issue.