Saunders, Real Estate, Hamptons

355 Comments by Publius

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Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

The following is from the rules of professional conduct that applies to both prosecutors [Ms. Merrifiedl] and defense counsel Ms. Kedia. The goal is to try the case in the courtroom where accusations can be met and fairly challenged. Not in the press which does not have the same advantages.

RULE 3.6:
Trial Publicity
(a) A lawyer who is participating in or has participated
in a criminal or civil matter shall not make an extrajudicial
statement that the lawyer knows or reasonably
should know will be disseminated by
means of public communication and will have a
substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing an
adjudicative proceeding in the matter.

(b) A statement ordinarily is likely to prejudice materially
an adjudicative proceeding when it refers to
a civil matter triable to a jury, a criminal matter or
any other proceeding that could result in incarceration,
and the statement relates to:

(1) the character, credibility, reputation or criminal
record of a party, suspect in a criminal investigation
or witness, or the identity of a witness
or the expected testimony of a party or witness;

(2) in a criminal matter that could result in incarceration,
the possibility of a plea of guilty to the
offense or the existence or contents of any confession,
admission or statement given by a defendant
or suspect, or that person’s refusal or
failure to make a statement;
(3) the performance or results of any examination
or test, or the refusal or failure of a person to
submit to an examination or test, or the identity
or nature of physical evidence expected to
be presented;

(4) any opinion as to the guilt or innocence of a
defendant or suspect in a criminal matter that
could result in incarceration;

(5) information the lawyer knows or reasonably
should know is likely to be inadmissible as evidence
in a trial and would, if disclosed, create a
substantial risk of prejudicing an impartial trial;

(6) the fact that a defendant has been charged with
a crime, unless there is included therein a statement
explaining that the charge is merely an accusation
and that the defendant is presumed
innocent until and unless proven guilty.

In reading your post, it appears that this rule of professional conduct may not have been followed in this case." Dec 12, 09 11:38 AM

Its called shooting the messenger." Dec 12, 09 10:10 PM

There was only a 20 minute gap between the e-mails that were sent. That is an extraordinarily fast recovery. The error on these facts was entirely understandable:

A note was sent and it indicated in substance there had been a verdict of not guilty on the top count. This, however, came from a juror other than the foreman. That is unusual, and could easily give rise to a misunderstanding.

Counsel for the Defendant also asked to have the partial verdict recorded. Appropriate response by defense counsel to make sure an acquittal is recorded, and that juror's note may still reflect the true state of deliberations that has yet to be officially recorded.

The only error was that a reported verdict has not been officially recorded.

The coverage has been terrific. You can not expect the Press to hire attorneys as reporters, and the reporters cover so many stories that this would not necessarily help. They cover municipal governance, school district meetings, criminal proceedings, as well as Easter egg hunts. They do their best.

Until you are ready to pay the hourly legal rate for every story reported, you have to be prepared for some slack in their system from time to time.

If you want to live in ancient times and shoot the messenger, go ahead, and while your at it turn off your internet access they didn't have that in ancient times." Dec 13, 09 10:01 AM

Suspended Westhampton Beach Village Police officers return to work

If it isn't time to abolish the PD, then it is time for a thorough examination of how business is conducted.

What is the actual crime rate in this community?

Are all reported crimes investigated?

Are all crimes charged at the appropriate level for the criminal acts perpetrated?

When was the last time an officer from WHB PD testified before the grand jury on a felony case that had been investigated and solved?

This is an inquiry that would require a great deal of time. Is it worth it to do the work that is clearly required to reform the PD?

If the PD wants to be obstructionist to such a process they are guaranteeing the dissolution of this department. About 3 Million dollars (when benefits are considered) annually is a lot of tax dollars.

How much would it cost contract with the Town? The service can't be any worse.

I like the theory of a local PD, if the officers liked it too then they would not put up with conduct that calls for the abolishment of the department." Dec 13, 09 12:28 PM

Southampton Town Board adopts dark skies legislation

Light pollution affects everyone. This is a good start.

We can't really see the night sky, its as if we all have cataracts and don't seem to realize it. Travel in a plane at night and you can seen the milky cloud of light across the entire northeast.

It is time to stop being afraid of the dark." Dec 13, 09 1:07 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

The prosecutrix did not make any application to bring in this alleged past so there must be something lacking in the alleged proof.

Prior bad acts, if proven, can be introduced to prove intent or absence of mistake. Maybe the proof you think it there, isn't." Dec 13, 09 11:26 PM

I can't say I have come across this problem before. However, in view of the note given that indicates that the jury has already reached a partial verdict, it would be difficult to declare a mistrial as to the entire case without first inquiring into whether there is a partial verdict as to any one or more of the offenses submitted.

If the judge, over the objection of counsel, refused to make such an inquiry, then defense counsel would have a strong argument against re-trial. Generally the rule is that a judge can not declare a mistrial unless there is a manifest necessity, and this argument would be extended to each offense individually.

In fact, if the judge, over objection of defense counsel, failed to make inquiry as to each offense, there is an argument to be made that, in the absence of any verdict, the only count we could be assured there was not an acquittal on is the lowest count.

I can't say I have found case law on point, but the argument is logical based upon the theory that a defendant, if possible, is entitled to a verdict from the jury he selected." Dec 13, 09 11:38 PM

It is neither the prosecutor nor the defense attorney who have made this case difficult. It is the nature of the case, a fight in a bar.

From one perspective:

Mr. Oddone is a man who choked Mr. Reister for a period from 2 to 3 minutes. In the process Mr. Oddone broke small bones in Mr. Reister's neck and Mr. Oddone compressed Mr. Reister's carrotid artery until Mr. Reister became unconscious, and Mr. Oddone continued to choke Mr. Reister for a sufficient period of time to cause permanent damage that lead to Mr. Reister's ultimate death.

There have been reports that Mr. Oddone has been involved in a previous violent confrontation in a bar, such that it is fair to assume that Mr. Oddone does not shrink from the use of physical force.

From another perspective:

Mr. Oddone was at a bar dancing, drinking and enjoying himself in the same manner as other patrons of the bar. Mr. Reister, a bouncer at the bar, attempted to enforce a rule and told Mr. Oddone to get down from the table on which he was dancing. Others were dancing on table tops too, but Mr. Oddone was arbitrarily singled out and he refused to stop. Mr. Reister then physically pulled Mr. Oddone from the table top to the floor and a fight between the two ensued.

Mr. Reister substantially outweighed Mr. Oddone, and but for the choke hold Mr. Oddone was able to maintain, Mr. Reister could have mopped the floor with Mr. Oddone. Under these circumstances Mr. Oddone was justified in defending himself from Mr. Reister, justified in putting Mr. Reister in choke hold to protect himself from the larger man.

The proof presented does not show that there was any point in time when BOTH: 1. Mr. Reister no longer posed a threat to Mr. Oddone, AND 2. That the actions of Mr. Oddone, during that period after the threat of violence against him had been neutralized, caused the death of Mr. Reister who had a pre-existing heart condition.

Stated another way, the injury inflicted upon Mr. Reister may have been caused during a time period when his actions were justified, and if he did continue to hold him, it was after that the damage had already been done.

It is also understood that Mr. Reister's chosen vocation is prison guard and he moonlights as a bouncer, such that it is fair to assume that Mr. Reister does not shrink from the use of physical force.

In order to impose CRIMINAL liability on Mr. Oddone the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt rests squarely on the prosecution to prove the first perspective and to disprove the second perspective. The defense has no burden of proof.

The difficulty in proving what happened in a bar when alcohol is flowing, music is blaring, and the hour is late is manifest. There are only a few things that are certain, Mr. Reister is dead, small bones in his neck were broken, Mr. Reister had a pre-existing heart condition, and Mr. Reister outweighed Mr. Oddone substantially. These facts alone are inadequate and the jury is forced to resort to witnesses with an ability to perceive and remember that was, at best, compromised.

Prosecuting combatants in a bar fight is very difficult, rarely done, and is rarely successful." Dec 14, 09 11:48 AM

You are making the point. This case is founded upon the strength of the perceptions of people in a bar who have been there for a while.

That testimony may in the end be sufficient, but it is not an easy task for a jury to say that it constitutes proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

As to taking sides, my only hope is that justice, as best it can be served within human limitations, is served. That does not appear to be a simple issue in this case.

" Dec 14, 09 12:10 PM

Oddone guilty of first-degree manslaughter, jury announces Monday

Now Judge Hinrichs will have the difficult job of deciding the proper sentence to impose. Many who thought the Defendant was guilty of Murder 2 would want the max, those who thought it was a Man 2 a sentence on the low end.

Hopefully, the proper respect will be accorded Judge Hinrichs when he undertakes such a difficult job.
" Dec 14, 09 5:53 PM

Time he has already been incarcerated is credited against whatever sentence Judge Hinrichs imposes in this case." Dec 14, 09 6:04 PM

Suspended Westhampton Beach Village Police officers return to work

Maybe, instead of contracting with Southampton Town PD, WHB contracts with Quogue PD. It is a small department and the worst anyone says about them is that they aggressively enforce the law, particularly DWI laws. That is okay with me.

Unless, WHB PD can clean up its act in a hurry. Very doubtful...
" Dec 15, 09 7:57 AM

Shinnecock Indian Nation wins preliminary federal recognition

This past September the Mashantucket Pequot Tribal Nation, owners Foxwoods, was hoping to restructure $2.3 billion in loans rather than default and trigger bankruptcy.

Who really benefits from casino gambling ?

The forever promise of something for nothing, when in fact what is being offered is nothing for something." Dec 16, 09 8:42 AM

If things were on the level, NY State would run into an equal protection problem, a reverse discrimination problem if it only lets the Indians gamble.

The federal statute that regulates Indian gaming does not require states to permit it if it is not otherwise permitted in the state. See Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (IGRA).

If the monopoly on gaming is gone, boy does that reduce the value of such a casino. But, then the question is whether things are on the level." Dec 16, 09 8:50 AM

Never mind that pink elephant in the room. Yes, congratulations to the Shinnecock Indians who, I am pretty sure, knew all along they were descended from native americans." Dec 16, 09 9:22 AM

Oddone guilty of first-degree manslaughter, jury announces Monday

Many are posting that Juror 2, or any juror who were to read media accounts or otherwise visit blog sites, or discuss the case, would be committing juror misconduct. Yes, judges do instruct jurors not to do those things, but we really have to ask why.

We expect jurors to render important, life altering decisions, but we treat them as little children.

Can a person, a juror, who understands that the only information that is reliable is that which passes through the courtroom doors and is subject to fair and open examination really be impairing the process if they read about or discuss the case prior to rendering a verdict?

If a person does not understand that newspapers can get it wrong, or that blog sites can contain malicious gossip or speculation, then they are unqualified to be a juror in the first instance. If we grant jurors the adult responsibility to render verdicts, we should be able to count upon them to act like adults. Even if one or two childish jurors should make it on a panel, then the balance of the members of the jury should be able to keep them in line if they stray.

We need to eliminate judicial paternalism. We would not have to get into silly discussions of whether people read a paper, saw a news report, or discussed the case with a spouse. Frankly, I would hope that all of those things would actually occur, but also that jurors as the adults we expect them to be would render their verdict based upon the evidence that was presented, or not presented.

Is it really reasonable to tell a juror that they undertake a momentous decision. A decision that, once it is made, can never be changed and will impact people for the rest of their lives, and tell them you can not talk about it with your spouse, priest, or other confidant?

It is always helpful to re-examine our rules, determine whether they remain important and should be preserved, or were perhaps never important and should be eliminated.

I hope that everyone involved in the case, and everyone interested in this case, moves forward to meet the challenges that tomorrow will bring with greater strength and more insight than when this all began. Myself included." Dec 16, 09 9:44 AM

When we expect jurors to act like adults, evaluate evidence like adults, and render verdicts like adults; there are very few things you will need to tell them to disregard.

When we start treating jurors like children and that is all we expect, that is all we will get. AND, you run the risk that when a case is weak jurors will speculate that something must have been suppressed or excluded, and will act as the children you assume them to be and speculate that something has been withheld. This only hurts the innocent.

Give jurors everything, they are adults. On this page there has been gossip that Mr. Oddone was present in a bar where bear bottles were broken and the police were called. No one has said he did anything, he was just present. Do you think introduction of that evidence would have meant anything ?

The judicial system suffers when prosecutors or defense attorneys can tell a jury afterwards that they had evidence that they wished they could have introduced. It is a statement that the process is unfair. The result is disdain for the process. Jurors should be expected to act as adults. We all deserve it." Dec 16, 09 1:01 PM

One of your arguments is "because we have always done it that way." That does not hold water with me.

What does driving with a suspended license, or transferring to another college without first telling a probation officer have to do with whether Mr. Oddone committed murder ? Nothing.

When you say Mr. Oddone was arrested for destruction of property and you say that someone made an accusation that he struck another person with a beer bottle in the head at a time when he was working as a bouncer. Are you saying that reading about unproven accusations would have swayed my judgment in this case ? No. Am I superior to a juror? No.

Are you saying that the DA would call witnesses to those events as relevant to the charges in this indictment? There would have to be more specific information to determine if I would consider it in the context of this case. Again, I don't claim to be superior to jurors.

We do not excuse judges from bench trials when they know about prior convictions of an accused. We expect him to weigh the present case upon the facts of the present case. I do not consider judges superior to jurors. They are versed in the law, but they are people with the same everyday experiences as you and I.

We can not hermetically seal jurors from the influences of the outside world, it is silly to try. Instead, explain the weaknesses of such things in jury instructions and expect them to act like adults.

If evidence was introduced that Oddone had struck someone in the head with a beer bottle previously, that would be relevant, but not determinative.

We also let people introduce evidence of good character, and good character can constitute reasonable doubt.

Jurors are adults, we need to treat them that way." Dec 16, 09 2:50 PM

Notice Sam below started his remark, if those allegations are true...

I credit jurors no more and no less than lawyers and judges. If they are told the accusations about a beer bottle to the head could come in, and the DA didn't produce it, then the jury could reasonably accept that there was no credible evidence to be offered even as assessed by a DA that often presents evidence that strains credulity.

If we trust jurors with a man's life, we must trust them with all of the information and stop pretending they can't handle it as well as lawyers and judges." Dec 16, 09 4:07 PM

Shinnecock Indian Nation wins preliminary federal recognition

Wait, a minute. Attempting to get a monopoly on casino gambling is the greatest effort at assimilation ever. Taking money from fools is the American way.

I would be more than happy to allow any Shinnecock Indian the complete right to fish and hunt deer, yes pleas hunt the deer. No assimilation required.

As for granting them a monopoly on casino gambling why not give them a special concession to deal drugs.. Oh wait we do that with cigarettes." Dec 16, 09 6:17 PM

Mr. Wheeler did not link Native Americans to crime in his remarks. That link was only offered by xatiannorthsea, yearrounder and now you dagdavid.

Some people want to yell discrimination anytime someone disagrees with something they are doing, or want to do.

That strategy has been played to great effect by others, but it has been overused. Better think of something else.

" Dec 16, 09 11:14 PM

More vitriole from peoplefirst.

SOME of the Shinnecocks complain that they have been unable to share in the bounty of this country, and now want their piece of the action. The complaint is that somehow they continue to be repressed even though they are admitted to public schools to be educated, and are permitted every other right of an American citizen. Some Shinnecocks want more than that. It doesn't hurt to ask. Nothing wrong with everyone else saying "No."

No casino
No concession to sell cigarettes or any other drugs.

Other Shinnecocks, remain justly proud of their heritage, and do not demand special dispensation. They work hard, like the rest of us, and have achieved remarkable successes in many endeavors, just like the rest of us.

Glad we are all Americans. We all come from varied pasts, with diverse traditions, and together form a remarkable country. Lets keep it that way." Dec 17, 09 8:56 AM

Good dental hygiene is always important. Don't want to have any cavities. " Dec 17, 09 8:59 AM

Suspended Westhampton Beach Village Police officers return to work


why should we even try to save the police department at all. Yes, this board of trustees can't get out of its own way. That really isn't all that new for village governance." Dec 17, 09 9:08 AM

Why would you think the PD will resolve itself ever?

I agree with you that the current trustees were elected primarily on the eruv issue. That is too bad because it should have simply been put to rest in the first instance. For me that is a separation of church and state issue, and for me it is absolutely clear that government officials have no business making such an endorsement, that it is surprising that the question was permitted to fester. That gave the opening to the election results you find so regrettable.

Hopefully, going forward all candidates will have the good sense to take the eruv question off the table by simply stating "it is not the business of government, next question."

You have pointed to trustee decisions that are maddening, but I can't say they are corrupt from anything I am aware of. They just seem to be part of a continuing problem with the Village PD. I don't doubt that a good chief and a good village board could make the PD run properly. To date that has not happened. Perhaps we never had both.

The problem with the PD seems, as a generalization, to be a problem endemic to small village police departments.

The next election has a majority of the board up for election. That is a faster, and more traditional, resolution than any legal coup that might be considered.

Nonetheless, I find it hard to reach the conclusion that the PD should continue and would be interested why you think it should." Dec 17, 09 12:18 PM

"Disgustingly corrupt" is a conclusion you have made. Inept, can't get out of its own way when it comes to handling the PD, I agree.

"Disgustingly corrupt" that is indictable, go to Mr. Spota, but it has to go beyond just not liking the people or recognizing they have pulled a boner when they didn't proceed with a hearing.

Perhaps the residents of this village are not "distractable" they know the problem is with the PD top to bottom, blaming trustees, while they can't get out of their own way, is the distraction." Dec 18, 09 6:28 AM

From our police blotter this week:

"Westhampton Beach Village Police confiscated three cases of beer from four teenagers on Oak Street at 8:30 p.m. on Saturday, December 12. An officer on patrol noticed two cars blocking the entrance to the Oak Street Condominiums and stopped to question the teenagers when he saw the beer. The teenagers, two 16-year-olds from Westhampton, a 16-year-old from East Quogue and a 15-year-old from Remsenburg, were not charged with a crime."

Who sold them the beer? How about an arrest, parents are notified, they go to court get an adjournment in contemplation of dismissal, no record, but they know, and other children know, that the illegal possession and consumption of alcohol isn't okay.

The community rails against DWI and the destruction it brings to so many people's lives, but in WHB, don't worry about it. Is this an offense that is the end of the world? No, but it isn't nothing either.

How about the home invasion burglary reported on Liberty Street. It was charged as a misdemeanor trespass, and there was a crime committed in the home. That = Burglary.

You would have to agree the problem is with the PD, and chief Dean should be able to read the police reports in the local paper and know there is a big problem and address it. It is too easy to blame the Trustees alone. This problem pre-existed them so apologies for Chief Dean and apologies for the Trustees both are unacceptable." Dec 18, 09 7:00 AM

As for the PD:

NY Village Law:

§ 8-800. Police departments

The board of trustees of a village may, by resolution, establish a police department in such village and appoint a chief of police and such personnel as may be needed, and fix their compensation

* * * * *

The board of trustees may abolish a police department established pursuant to this section by local law, subject to permissive referendum, and the department shall be deemed abolished as presented in such proposition.

* * * * *

The board of trustees of a village, upon establishing or abolishing a police department, shall notify the commissioner of the division of criminal justice services of such action within thirty days thereafter.

That means you have to have a Board of Trustees that will do the job ! In June the Mayor + two Trustee seats are up. That is a majority. We need candidates. A Southampton Town Police Officer out on disability is NOT a candidate. That is just another Kametler, another Teller, and they haven't done jack.

None of the Trustees know how to handle this problem. Birk doesn't show up to address it, Tucker and Levan sweep it under the rug, and Kametler in substance says "Whats the Problem?" The Mayor, he is more worried about protecting the Chief's extra-contractual comp. time, and only putting out fires when the community discovers them.

" Dec 18, 09 8:11 AM

1. I am not yet ready to live full time in WHB so I won't be running for elected office this year. So forget about that.

2. You say I distract people with my posts, but, again, my post to you was: "I find it hard to reach the conclusion that the PD should continue and would be interested why you think it should." You did not address the issue. you engaged in distraction. Jean, are you now, and have you ever been satisfied with the operation of the village police department?"

3. The question I have repeatedly presented is: Is the WHB PD worth the $ and the trouble?

As for Dean Speir, he has some valuable insights, but seems to share your undiluted support for the Chief of Police.

Vic Levy just got elected as a fire department commissioner, he may be good, but he thought extra contractual comp time for the Chief was fine, and he thought that putting a cop who is out on disability on the village board was a good idea. Kameter has been n.g, Teller, n.g. another police officer as a trustee, n.g.

Seems to me you support the camp that supports the Chief of Police, no matter that he has been in charge of the PD for ten years and it is as screwed up as ever. You also avoid the direct question of whether the PD was EVER good." Dec 18, 09 1:08 PM

East End still digging out after record snow

The whole birthers movement has often been described as racist. Maybe it is just silly. It was done with John McCain too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/world/americas/28iht-28mccain.10514626.html" Dec 21, 09 2:22 PM

U.S. Representive Tim Bishop details new initiatives

There is a terrific non-partisan book about the history of federal spending. Deficit spending has been a bi-partisan approach to government for 30 years.

Don't bother to reference the Clinton interlude when we had increased tax revenues during the dot.com bubble. (Not picking on Pres. Clinton, just anticipating common response I have heard.)

Debt that our children and grandchildren will pay is still debt. That is true whether you chest thumping hawk that spends on wars,

or a bleeding heart liberal lending a hand to the poor, downtrodden souls in this country.

Until we get the idea that WE should only buy what WE pay for now, the problems we leave our children and grandchildren will only be larger, worse, and last longer.

the link to the book on amazon is:

http://www.amazon.com/Where-Does-Money-Go-Federal/dp/0061241873/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261423410&sr=1-1-spell" Dec 21, 09 2:34 PM

East End still digging out after record snow

This was the biggest snow storm in a long time.

I would rather not pay for a fleet of trucks, tons of salt / sand, and an enormous workforce to stand-by at the ready for a storm that comes along once every ten years. A small inconvenience once every decade is no big deal.

Enjoy some quiet time and appreciate your surroundings while the crews help dig out." Dec 21, 09 10:16 PM

Zappone to be appointed deputy supervisor of Southampton Town

The old "cup of coffee" argument.

This is a tired old argument that gets dragged out for every school expansion, every library expansion, essentially every tax increase.

$7.83 / week is over $400 dollars each year, and that is for you, and every neighbor on the block, in every hamlet throughout the town. Of course for some homes that is more, some less, depending on the assessed value.

All together it is a lot of money for policing a town which has the least crime of all the Towns on the East End. PD don't dare take credit for the low crime rate, it is more a matter of socioeconomics more than anything else. " Dec 22, 09 11:31 AM

Not in uniform. Free speech is a private right. Wearing the uniform was an effort to augment private speech with a public display of force and intimidation." Dec 22, 09 11:37 AM

Blizzard snarls life on the East End

Now I feel important. My street was great. In fact every street I took to work yesterday was great. I must be surrounded by important people.

Pretty good for a record snow fall.

Look at the kids in the picture above and you can't help but smile. Those kids are enjoying this weather event." Dec 22, 09 2:00 PM

Shinnecocks are looking at benefits that come with federal recognition

There have been many black people who suffered through slavery (white people too for that matter).

There are many Native Americans who were displaced from their homes and treated to say the least very poorly.

The Jewish people have been kicked around a lot too.

There are entire peoples who have been the victim genocide and nations that no longer exist.

In the melting pot of genetic recombination we can all point to some egregious wrong inflicted upon our ancestors. Horrible, horrible, horrible.

The argument that the tribe can't mortgage its property is offered as a complaint? They own land that remains untaxed, and the reason it can't be mortgaged is because no one else can touch it to satisfy the mortgage if they didn't pay back the loan.

Like every other citizen they can buy land and a home and pay taxes and have exactly what everyone else has.

Instead, some of the Shinnecock want something more and different. Can't blame them for asking as long as there are people who will listen. " Dec 23, 09 10:57 AM

Who has had a boot on their neck, yesterday? the week before? a year ago? ten years ago? 25 years ago? 50 years ago? 75 years ago?

As for generalized discrimination by one group against another it goes on everyday. People like to be in clubs, whether it is shared racial identity, co-religionists, political ideology, frat house, sorority house... the list is endless.

As for stereotyping someone who has lived on the reservation; can you tell by looking at someone where they live or have lived? In some cases yes, in the cases of the Shinnecock, clearly no." Dec 23, 09 1:56 PM

Southampton Town Board delays reorganization meeting

Maybe they should just postpone everything until after the special election (tongue in cheek). With the exception of routine business, what is going to be accomplished?

RIP, Harris Palmer." Jan 5, 10 9:27 AM

U.S. Representive Tim Bishop details new initiatives

How about true economic reform? No government handouts for rich or poor. You make a bad decision, live with it. Make a bad loan, take out a bad loan, deal with it. You build a home on the beach? You're an idiot, better have a boat, life jacket and some oars.

The premise that we need moneylenders or a powerful government are antithetical to origins of this nation. This is not to say short term, temporary credit is bad, or that government which performs some basic functions isn't a good thing.

Only that their respective roles in society have become out-sized. " Jan 6, 10 8:34 AM

Parties gear up for nominating committees

It is routinely usurped when the parties cross endorse candidates." Jan 6, 10 12:38 PM

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